Builder broke loo! What are my rights?

Wibble

Briefly, a builder did some work in our house, including putting a floor down in our downstairs toilet which involved moving the toilet while he did it. Afterwards, we discovered that the cistern was now cracked and after we got him back he agreed that it had to be replaced, though said it wasn't his fault as it must've been a weakness in the cistern as he took great care..!

Anyway - I don't agree it's not his fault as it was a quality toilet that had been there for years working ok before, but I wanted to get it sorted out amicably rather than get legal.

While he said that it wasn't his fault, he did say that he'd split the cost of the new cistern and install it. Alternatively, we could get a new toilet (as the current one isn't white and would be hard to get a replacement) and he'd fit that.

What we then verbally agreed was that we'd get a new toilet, but that also led on to us needing a new sink as if we got a white toilet we'd need a white sink too. So we said that rather than him paying towards the toilet, he could fit a new toilet, sink and taps.

He agreed to that. We then sourced and got all the things and called him on a Friday to ask when he could fit them. He said he'd need to check his diary as he'd need to allow a day or a day and a half to be sure in case there were problems.

I said he didn't need to get back to me over the weekend, but I did expect him to get back to me soon after. He didn't call back the following week so I called him a few times on his mobile and ended up leaving a message. Still no reply. I tried calling a few more times and no reply, so called his home and his wife said that she'd tell him. That was last night and there's still no reply.

So it's nearly 2 weeks now since he said he'd need to check his diary to see when he could do it and he's not called or returned our calls. He was somebody that was extremely reliable when doing the work on the house, so it's a bit disconcerting.

Now, I have still not paid him all the money for the work he did on the house, saying that he would get that when the toilet was fixed, as I do not consider the work complete if he left us with a non-functioning toilet.


So what I want to know is what do I have to do before I can reasonably say it is not good enough and we will get the toilet refitted ourselves and deduct the cost from the money we still owe him.

What I mean, is what *legally* do I need to do? While it's actually been nearly 6 weeks since the toilet was broken, it's only been 2 weeks that we've been waiting for him to fit the new toilet, as there were delays with him on holiday and us choosing and sourcing the replacement toilet/sink/taps.

What I am thinking is that if I cannot get a reply this week then next week I will write to him (as it'll be over 2 weeks with no response) and tell him that we expect the toilet to be fixed by a certain date and for him to confirm that he will do that within a week, otherwise we will have no option but to get it fitted by somebody else and deduct the cost from what we owe him as 6+ weeks without a working downstairs toilet and no communication from him about fixing it is not acceptable.

Whereas before we said he didn't need to pay for anything, just needed to fit it, I'd expect the costs we deduct to cover the cost of the whole toilet and the fitting of that toilet. We would cover the cost of the sink/taps and their fitting, though we're only needing to do that due to him breaking our toilet.

So - what do you think? Am I supposed to give him longer?

DVardysShadow

Wibble wrote: »

...

What I am thinking is that if I cannot get a reply this week then next week I will write to him (as it'll be over 2 weeks with no response) and tell him that we expect the toilet to be fixed by a certain date and for him to confirm that he will do that within a week, otherwise we will have no option but to get it fitted by somebody else and deduct the cost from what we owe him as 6+ weeks without a working downstairs toilet and no communication from him about fixing it is not acceptable.

That is the sensible option. Keep copies and send recorded in case it turns nasty. And try a couple of times to contact him by phone to discuss this option. If he agrees, get a date and still send a letter recording the agreement. If no response, record the attempts to contact him.

Lifeisbutadream

IMO 2 weeks isnt a very long time - he will not have scheduled in to fit you a toilet and he may be very busy (I imagine that he is working for other customers and does not want to let them down - think if you were the customer he rang to say he couldnt do scheduled work because he is doing extra work for someone else)

I think his offer to fit everything is more than fair.

I understand your frustration, but if I was you I would write him a letter, detailing what has been agreed and ask him to contact you with a date for fitting. Follow it up with another call.

I run a joinery/building business with OH and I deal with all the messages and letters, but if he isn't lucky enough to have a wife doing all that for him , he may be behind with everything and probably a bit stressed too.

Wibble

Thanks for the replies!

Yes, I'm going to be sure to keep a log of when everything happened in case it's needed later.

I'd agree that 2 weeks may not sound a lot, which is why I thought I'd ask. But it's not just that he's not done it within 2 weeks - it's that he's not taking calls or telling us anything and it's been out of use for around 6 weeks now.

I also appreciate that he may be busy with other things, but not having a downstairs loo working for the last 6 weeks with no sign of the builder even contacting us doesn't seem right either. E.g. last weekend we had somebody stay for a long weekend who's recently had a hip replacement - so she was having to go up and down the stairs more often than she needed to. Not the builder's concern, probably, but it is frustrating when calls are ignored.

If the builder said that he could do it in 2 weeks then it'd be annoying to have to wait that long, but we'd at least know it would be fixed. It's the not knowing if in another 2 weeks we'll be any closer to getting it sorted. It's how many weeks of unreturned calls is it reasonable to wait before taking it further.

At the end of the day his mistake is causing us to have to spend £400 or so to replace the fittings, which were perfectly good and we had no plans to change, so him offering to fit it for free is the minimum that I'd really expect.

Anihilator

The builder is only liable if he was neglient. If it was simply a case of an old fitting being knackered and breaking during work instructed by you then you dont have much of a case and should take what is being offered.

Ideally he should have informed you of the risk etc but builders arent super human and cant stop parts breaking because their old.

Lifeisbutadream

Wibble wrote: »

Thanks for the replies!

Yes, I'm going to be sure to keep a log of when everything happened in case it's needed later.

I'd agree that 2 weeks may not sound a lot, which is why I thought I'd ask. But it's not just that he's not done it within 2 weeks - it's that he's not taking calls or telling us anything and it's been out of use for around 6 weeks now.

I also appreciate that he may be busy with other things, but not having a downstairs loo working for the last 6 weeks with no sign of the builder even contacting us doesn't seem right either. E.g. last weekend we had somebody stay for a long weekend who's recently had a hip replacement - so she was having to go up and down the stairs more often than she needed to. Not the builder's concern, probably, but it is frustrating when calls are ignored.

If the builder said that he could do it in 2 weeks then it'd be annoying to have to wait that long, but we'd at least know it would be fixed. It's the not knowing if in another 2 weeks we'll be any closer to getting it sorted. It's how many weeks of unreturned calls is it reasonable to wait before taking it further.

At the end of the day his mistake is causing us to have to spend £400 or so to replace the fittings, which were perfectly good and we had no plans to change, so him offering to fit it for free is the minimum that I'd really expect.

Don't get me wrong I completely agree that it isn't acceptable that he hasn't contacted you when he said he would, but just so that you know he probably isn't deliberately ignoring you.

I just know that if OH was left to his own devices, he would hardly ever contact anyone - it's not that he doesn't care, just that he is really busy and stressed and doesn't think about things!

I find the nicer customers are, the more I want to help them (I do like to help everyone though - the mean ones just go to the bottom of the pile:D) - try leaving him a really nice message - perhaps complimenting him on the work he did and say that a friend has asked for the name of a builder and you would like to pass his on, but want to make sure your is finished beofre you do?

Lifeisbutadream

Wibble wrote: »

At the end of the day his mistake is causing us to have to spend £400 or so to replace the fittings, which were perfectly good and we had no plans to change, so him offering to fit it for free is the minimum that I'd really expect.

To be fair you would be getting a full new suite in exchange for old, so I think under those circumstances him fitting it free is probably the most you could expect.

Also, have you tried making a claim on your insurance? I would expect that you would be covered for something like this.

Wibble

Hi all - thanks for the replies again!

Yes - I know what you mean about a good, honest builder being genuinely busy, and that may well be the case. We did actually get on with him well and he was here for a good month working on the house. I'm not too surprised that a couple of weeks on from us having all the parts ready to be installed that he's not done it, but I am surprised that he's not contacted us as he was good at that before.

As for him only being liable if he was negligent, that can be a hard things to prove. But the cistern is a good make and has been working with no problem for years. He'd removed it, refitted it and there's now a crack from the hole where it's screwed into the wall. It was unlikely to have been like that before as it never leaked and he didn't notice it. It is far more likely that it was a result of him over tightening it. I.e. the only real way that that crack could occur is over tightening and it was either like that before (but there was no sign of that) or after.

Also, when I first told him he was adamant that he'd not screwed it to the wall, until I told him he had as there were screws there! That makes me wonder if it was actually the other person he employed as a helper that had done it.

I know that we'll end up with a new suite, so you might think him fitting it was all that was fair. But there was nothing actually wrong with the old one - it was a light peach colour so not the colour you'd choose from new, but not too offensive and it was all in good condition so there was no need/desire to replace it. So I don't think you can argue that we're getting a good deal, unless we'd planned on replacing it anyway.

E.g. if you went into Kwik Fit to get your tyre checked and they were still good for another 20,000 miles, but the mechanic accidentally punctured it you'd not be happy if he just said he'd fit a new one for free but you'd have to buy a new one with no discount as it wasn't new!

Good point about the insurance, though I don't know if things are covered if a workman breaks them. Shouldn't he have insurance too?

Anyway - I'll try and contact him again today and tomorrow and then if I still don't hear by the end of the weekend the I'll have to write and ask him for a date when he can do it by or else we'll have to get somebody else to do it and deduct costs from what we still owe him.