another boiler quote question

hughes20

Have just had three quotes for a new boiler installation which vary wildly and I'm totally confused...BG wants 4000£ for a new boiler (their own make - non-combi) complete with cyclinder thermostat, central thermostat, power flush of 9 rads, Magna something (?), condensate drain plumbed, flue fitted and brick repair. Seems very expensive. N-power asking 3400£ for Vaillant Ecotec+831 combi and over 5000£ for non-combi Vaillant as they claim that there's a lot of extra work in removing cyclinder and tank in loft. Local firm asking 2500£ for Vaillant 624 and same work as BG. Both the latter two claim that the other is wrong i.e. "a Vaillant 624 can't work properly" because of something to do with sealed flues (?) or that "he's trying to confuse you with the need for a combi" . ( Right about that at least...)
House is a Victorian terrace, 4 bed, 1 bath with an old cold water gravity system and an Ideal Mexico boiler >20 years old.
Anyone have any advice on what to ask to clarify who is right? or any ideas on how much a proper quote should be, roughly speaking...?
I've never had a boiler before (being Canadian) so I'd really appreciate any help on this ...

tstodart

You might want to research regarding combi/non-combi options. There's lots on the web. Personally I wouldn't change from a non-combi system to a combi one unless you have desparate need for the space taken up by the hot water tank.

I had my boiler replaced this year, and received a similarly outragious quote from BG. Local fitter was similar to your quote (which I went with). I am not sure why N-power want to charge so much for more for a non-combi.

You might want to check whether your local fitter is recognised by Vailliant as one of their 'trained' fitters (just go to their website). Also, 'Which' magazine has an online boiler review which you could have a look at with a one month £1 trial subscription.

There is also the 'In my home (includes DIY) MoneySaving' with lots knowledgeable people.

Cardew

I agree with the post above; having experience of both, I would not have a combi.

Why are you getting a new boiler? If faulty, can it not be repaired? If BG says spares are hard to come by, don't believe them.

I have an Ideal Mexico that is 21 years old.

Canucklehead

hughes20 wrote: »

Have just had three quotes for a new boiler installation which vary wildly and I'm totally confused...BG wants 4000£ for a new boiler (their own make - non-combi) complete with cyclinder thermostat, central thermostat, power flush of 9 rads, Magna something (?), condensate drain plumbed, flue fitted and brick repair. Seems very expensive. N-power asking 3400£ for Vaillant Ecotec+831 combi and over 5000£ for non-combi Vaillant as they claim that there's a lot of extra work in removing cyclinder and tank in loft. Local firm asking 2500£ for Vaillant 624 and same work as BG. Both the latter two claim that the other is wrong i.e. "a Vaillant 624 can't work properly" because of something to do with sealed flues (?) or that "he's trying to confuse you with the need for a combi" . ( Right about that at least...)
House is a Victorian terrace, 4 bed, 1 bath with an old cold water gravity system and an Ideal Mexico boiler >20 years old.
Anyone have any advice on what to ask to clarify who is right? or any ideas on how much a proper quote should be, roughly speaking...?
I've never had a boiler before (being Canadian) so I'd really appreciate any help on this ...

Good afternoon and welcome to MSE (always great to see another Canuck;)):

There are several options...
1. Keep your Mexico and treat it with care and regular servicing
2. Replace the Mexico with a regular boiler and new vented hot water cylinder
3. " " with a system boiler and an unvented hot water cylinder (how you probably got your hot water in Canada i.e. under mains pressure)
4. Fit a combi.

Options 3 + 4 will depend on the mains water flow and pressure rates

We have a combi boiler in our own home as we prefer showers to baths and have only one bathroom. Combis will have trouble coping with multiple drawoff points eg. 2 showers etc.

Whatever you decide to do, get your RGI (Registered Gas Installer) to convert all your cold taps to mains supply as opposed to the cold water storage cistern you'll have in the attic...I spent the first year here drinking water from the bathroom cold tap not knowing it wasn't on mains supply:eek:

In terms of cost, it will be dependent on where you are in the UK and the standard of the specification. I'd recommend Vaillant, Viessmann (which are sold in Canada) and Remeha. Installation in the loft will be the most expensive as will the conversion of the system from open vented to a sealed system. A typical quote eg. for a combi should include TRVs, programmable roomstat, scale inhibitor in hard water area eg. down here in the southeast, Magnaclean/Boiler Buddy (magnetic filter), powerflushing and addition of inhibitor,lagging (insulation) of hot water pipework where required, completion of the Benchmark, notification of the installation to Building Control, removal of all associated waste, and making good.

Energy suppliers will give the higher quotes. A good independent RGI, recommended to you by a source you trust is the way to go (but I would say that as my OH is one;)) or if you can't, try the CIPHE website (you'll find that many gas installers aren't qualified plumbers...ask anyone who quotes if he/she is).

You can find further information on central heating here and here.

Let us know how you get on.

HTH

Canuclehead

hughes20

Thanks very much for all the advice - can I just clarify Canucklehead - are you saying that a new system boiler (or a new regular boiler) always requires a new cylinder either unvented or vented (respectively)? As far as I know there's nothing wrong with the old cylinder so does it have to be replaced or just have a thermostatic control added? (Only one supplier has included a new one in their quote).
Shall follow up on the rest of the reading right now...

Gerrard_8_lfc

Cardew wrote: »

=
If BG says spares are hard to come by, don't believe them.
.

Erm because if BG find the spare hard to come by in our spares depot in leicester we must tell customers.

I see what your getting at thinking they just want business but my 25 year old warm air unit is still ticking over and they can get parts.

Combi boilers have a tendecy of breaking down maybe because of there power like cars people dont realise the higher the power of boiler and the manufacturer can depend of the boilers life along with servicing.

again cardew all things said by BG can be carrried out by a 3rd party it is
only a recommendation by BG who have a strict licence to protect as I am sure you are aware as you are not a silly person in your posts.

and in reference to this topic BG are very high prices for installation but people trust BG if you get your local guy whos to say he will do the job right but you have a recall with BG so the price is high. am I wrong ?

Cardew

Gerrard_8_lfc wrote: »

Erm because if BG find the spare hard to come by in our spares depot in leicester we must tell customers.

I see what your getting at thinking they just want business but my 25 year old warm air unit is still ticking over and they can get parts.

Combi boilers have a tendecy of breaking down maybe because of there power like cars people dont realise the higher the power of boiler and the manufacturer can depend of the boilers life along with servicing.

again cardew all things said by BG can be carrried out by a 3rd party it is
only a recommendation by BG who have a strict licence to protect as I am sure you are aware as you are not a silly person in your posts.

and in reference to this topic BG are very high prices for installation but people trust BG if you get your local guy whos to say he will do the job right but you have a recall with BG so the price is high. am I wrong ?

Hi Gerrard,
We have covered some of this in earlier threads.

I have a CH system fitted in 1988 when I had the house built. It was on BG's 3*/Homecare until a couple of years ago. The only problem with the boiler(Ideal Mexico)in that period was a thermocouple - that I could have replaced very easily myself if I needed to.
I started to get letters from BG stating that they no longer stocked parts and they couldn't guarantee that they would be able to repair boiler.

There are of course spares available for the Ideal Mexico - a ver common boiler - everywhere.

Each letter was followed by a letter from the sales team offering me an 'unbeatable' deal for a new boiler.

BG having been happy to get ever increasing 'premiums'(way above inflation rate) from me for 19 years, with very little work required on their part, were now trying to pressurise me to get a boiler replacement.

I simply cancelled my policy!

I think many/most of us would prefer to get our boiler replaced(when the time comes) by BG. I certainly would be prepared to pay a premium over the quote from local plumbers - simply for the security. As you say BG will do a good job and sort out any problems.

I would certainly pay 10% more(which is £300 or so) I might consider 20% extra. However it seems that most BG quotes are 80% to 100% higher and my 'peace of mind' ain't worth several thousand pounds!

Every single item - including labour - is 'top dollar' and then add some. Somebody in a currently running thread complained about astronomical prices for a heated towel rail and radiators.

I have been a fan of BG's service - which has always been excellent - but in recent years their prices seem to have gone through the roof.

amtrakuk

Quite interesting Cardew. I guess older boilers have stood the test of time and you certainly seem to know yours inside out. What regularly goes wrong, eg thermocouple, you know how to fix. I guess in a situation like yours there is little point paying for a maintenance contract.

If you're boiler does need replacing it will cost you a similar price to someone who has been paying for the maintenance contract.