The Reality of Working for a Supermarket in 2009/Return to Victorian Britain

ninky_2

for a really interesting and intelligent look at food waste and its global impact read tristram stuart's 'waste'. he was for many years a freegan (before it became fashionable and itv started getting journos to make films about it). there are some shocking examples of waste such as marks and spencer throwing away slices of bread from every loaf during sandwich making.

http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Observer/Pix/pictures/2009/7/18/1247912279867/The-contents-of-a-bin-out-001.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/gallery/2009/jul/19/food-waste%3Fpicture%3D350496029&usg=__yUtVYdYARORAOMpLklxBO8V54IA=&h=500&w=375&sz=84&hl=en&start=14&tbnid=KKWr2krIoNpobM:&tbnh=130&tbnw=98&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dtristram%2Bstuart%2Bwaste%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Dactive%26sa%3DG

bendix

yorkshirekev wrote: »

The reason we cannot see the problem is because it isn't us that is doing the dirty work. No human being regardless of their nationality should work in such working conditions. It is easy to speak from the comfort of a warm office and a permanent full time job (I do). There comes a time where we have to remember the difference between right and wrong.

Instead of seeing Slovakians, Poles and Lithuanians, see instead your friends and your loved ones in that situation. The mark of what sort of society we are is not how high we raise the bar, it is instead how low we sink.

.

Who would you suggest does the 'dirty work' as you call it? Programmed robots? Trained monkeys?

It's so easy to appear nice and caring, when you don't provide answers. You can make grand sweeping phrases designed to illustrate your humanity.

How about this. Take those jobs away, and then see what happens. I'm sure those you are being so bleeding heart about will be less than impressed that the one opportunity they found to live and work in the UK has been stolen from them.

yorkshirekev

bendix wrote: »

Who would you suggest does the 'dirty work' as you call it? Programmed robots? Trained monkeys?

It's so easy to appear nice and caring, when you don't provide answers. You can make grand sweeping phrases designed to illustrate your humanity.

How about this. Take those jobs away, and then see what happens. I'm sure those you are being so bleeding heart about will be less than impressed that the one opportunity they found to live and work in the UK has been stolen from them.

Simple, you turn all these jobs into full time secure jobs. All these organisations such as Tesco etc are only behaving like this because they are allowed to. It is only dirty work because they are making it dirty work. I work in the industry myself and honestly it would not be that difficult.

The conditions in which someone is employed makes a huge difference. All these companies and sub-contractors can afford to do it. It is just a matter of provoking the will to do it. That's all.

Generali

ninky wrote: »

i'm a big fan of freegans. although it is not really legal. the contents of the bin actually belong to the supermarket and removing stuff from them is officially theft.

I don't believe this to be true.

AIUI, if you have good reason to believe that something has been thrown away then you're free to take it.

Many years ago, Channel 4 had a TV program based on this idea. They took things from skips and furnished a house with what they took plus some ingenuity.

lostinrates

Generali wrote: »

I don't believe this to be true.

AIUI, if you have good reason to believe that something has been thrown away then you're free to take it.

Many years ago, Channel 4 had a TV program based on this idea. They took things from skips and furnished a house with what they took plus some ingenuity.

I think ninky' s right.

bendix

ninky wrote: »

bendix i really do marvel at your faith in the market to reward the worthy and punish the undeserving. do you really believe that those who work hard do well and those who don't fail? take your "secretary" (what a lovely old fashioned world the city is), you suggest that because she is lithuanian and made it to this reasonably paid pa position that means all those from lithuanian who haven't are somehow just less capable. (i bet she still gets paid a fair bit less than others in your office and probably works no less hard). maybe she came from a family where education was encouraged, had access to english language at a younger age than others or maybe had the luck to be born a little more attractive and perky. i don't know. but i don't think she is evidence that all is well in the world of the market.

That's a very disappointing response, from someone I consider to be very intelligent, ninky.

For the record, she gets paid at the same rate as other secretarial support staff in the company, which is roughly 15% above market norms for the same role in competitor firms. Her nationality has nothing to do with it. As you would know, if there is a vacancy, it is advertised and then people apply for it, and the employer selects the person they think can do the job best. Is that so wrong? Sadly, some people don't make it - so be it. What is your solution to that? Is it the employers' fault and responsibility to take on everyone and provide for those who don't make it?

Utterly ridiculous?

Should we give everyone the same salary, irrespective of what role they do in society? Fine, go ahead and set the example yourself in your own workplace. I look forward to hear of your progress.

The market isn't perfect, but its the best there is. There will always be winner and losers, some undeserving losers. That's a fact of life.

One more point. There have been plenty of attempts to impose an artificially 'fairer' system onto this wild and natural market order over the last century. The Soviet Union, China, Cambodia, North Korea. Sadly, they didn't turn out so well.

ninky_2

Generali wrote: »

I don't believe this to be true.

AIUI, if you have good reason to believe that something has been thrown away then you're free to take it.

Many years ago, Channel 4 had a TV program based on this idea. They took things from skips and furnished a house with what they took plus some ingenuity.

there would have been some caveat such as informing the skip owners first. on kirsty's home made home recently she took a mirror from a skip and they made a point of saying in the voiceover that she had got permission first as it is not legal to take stuff from skips. you could probably film freegans taking stuff from bins if they had planned to do it anyway but you certainly couldn't direct someone to do so.

ninky_2

bendix wrote: »

As you would know, if there is a vacancy, it is advertised and then people apply for it, and the employer selects the person they think can do the job best. Is that so wrong? Sadly, some people don't make it - so be it. What is your solution to that? Is it the employers' fault and responsibility to take on everyone and provide for those who don't make it?

that isn't how it works generally in my sector. many jobs are not advertised and are filled through word of mouth and / or recommendation. nepotism is, of course, rife. as are the individual prejudices and foibles of the people who hire and fire.

i'm not putting the blame with individual employers and saying they should necessarily take on the unemployable (although some could certainly cast their net a good deal wider...the glass ceiling and all). a little more awareness from all, a little more sympathy, a little more what i would call 'humanity' could probably go some way to improving things however. and i've said it before but a maximum as well as a minimum wage (at a higher level than now) wouldn't be a bad idea. plus much bigger penalities for companies that flout employment law with an amnesty for those reporting them.

Generali

ninky wrote: »

there would have been some caveat such as informing the skip owners first. on kirsty's home made home recently she took a mirror from a skip and they made a point of saying in the voiceover that she had got permission first as it is not legal to take stuff from skips. you could probably film freegans taking stuff from bins if they had planned to do it anyway but you certainly couldn't direct someone to do so.

Fair enough. My source was some dodgy 1980s TV program made on a shoestring that I half remember at best.

bendix

ninky wrote: »

that isn't how it works generally in my sector. many jobs are not advertised and are filled through word of mouth and / or recommendation. nepotism is, of course, rife. as are the individual prejudices and foibles of the people who hire and fire.

i'm not putting the blame with individual employers and saying they should necessarily take on the unemployable (although some could certainly cast their net a good deal wider...the glass ceiling and all). a little more awareness from all, a little more sympathy, a little more what i would call 'humanity' could probably go some way to improving things however. and i've said it before but a maximum as well as a minimum wage (at a higher level than now) wouldn't be a bad idea. plus much bigger penalities for companies that flout employment law with an amnesty for those reporting them.

Well, your sector is hardly typical is it? It strikes me as ironic though that recriutment practices inthe so called liberal creative arts sector are more closed to those who don't fit in, than the hard-edged legal sector. :rotfl:

But,then again, perhaps it's not surprising. It's always been a bit preachy, yet overlaid with a wonderful layer of NIMBYism, hasn't it?

Maximum wage? How intriguingly meritocratic. And at what level would you set it? Let me hazard a completely wild guess and say it's a bit more than . . . . oh . . . how about £1500 a week?