Who is responsible for our debt?

mm2000

Stupidspender wrote:

MM2000 it seems that you blame your debt on the labour party? this is a new one to me I have seen people blame banks\partners\unemployment\accidents ect ect but never a political party.
I am just glad this forum was not around when the Tories put up mortgage interest rates 5% in one day and when we had inflation at 14% unemployment at 3 million and thousands in negative equity, or are we not supposed to remember all that?

Anything the Tories did fortunately did not affect me. However the Labour party are continually bleeding this country dry. There appears to be no end to their stealth taxes to sqander on immigrants they freely allow into the country as well as ensuring their own pensions.
A work colleague has been told his council tax is liable to increase by £500 next year when the houses get revalued. There is no upper limit on National insurance contributions plus it was increased, Tax allowances have not increased in line with inflation every year. it currently costs me an extra £40 per month to put petrol in my car, not all down to the increase in oil prices, over 60% is tax for labour to waste. All insurance premiums are more expensive because Labour decided they needed a 4% tax on them. WHY?
I could not care less whether we host the 2012 Olympics yet I have to help pay for it through my Council tax as well as subsidising people in the North. The cost of car MOT's has increased to pay for the new Computer network to stop MOT fraud. If MOT fraud becomes a thing of the past revenue would increase anyway so why raise the cost.
Don't be fooled to think people are getting into debt over luxuries it is fast becoming necessities which are forcing people into debt.

mm2000

fishface-69 wrote:

Having said that (& now seeing the light!) the constant bombardment of debt plan adverts worries me (ie the ones that say you're up to your eyes in debt, have CCJ's & no money but dont worry we'll give you more & you'll have enought money to get something else you cant afford!) to the point that I made a formal complaint to the advertising trading standards who basically said that as long as advertisers pay & remain within guidelines they can do nothing.

Thes adverts ought to carry a Wealth Warning as Cigarettes carry Health Warnings. I hate the advert with the bloke sorting out his loan whilst talking about football and his wife is videoing him.

Iwantmorecash

im afraid my debt is down to over spending......
and
buying it now rather than saving up

so it all my fault
i aplied for the cards
i used the cards
i screwd up
and now im am starting to sort it ( well on the 25th anyway)

calleyw

mm2000 wrote:

Don't be fooled to think people are getting into debt over luxuries it is fast becoming necessities which are forcing people into debt.

But a lot of people seem to think that having brand new cars and going abroad for holidays, having the latest mobile phone, ipod and having Sky tv, designer clothes etc etc as necessities.

Nope, they are luxuries as you don't need them to live. But that does not stop people from getting them.

The reason we are paying more in council tax and NI is to pay for peoples wages. As people working in those sectors say we need more money to pay the bills. So then there wages go up and of course council and NI go up to cover them.

You went on earlier about it is the governments fault manufacturing is leaving the uk. Nope, again it is the wages in this country. People want too much money. So what does the company do. Oh that is a toughie. Shall we pay £50 a day to worker in the uk or £5 a week to worker in another country with a lower cost of living. With companies trying to make profits I know which they would choose.

I personally know of companies that have lost contracts and even shut sites down because the widget they produced they can be got from example china for 5p but in this country the same widget cost £1. Look at big companies why for example do banks out source call centres to India. Umm cheaper labour.

It is a no win situation and is not going to get any better. We need to get the cost of living down in this country. But I don't expect that to happen any time soon.


Yours


Calley

mm2000

My thoughts on the points you have raised although I realise some may not be directed at me.

calleyw wrote:

But a lot of people seem to think that having brand new cars and going abroad for holidays, having the latest mobile phone, ipod and having Sky tv, designer clothes etc etc as necessities.
I don't have a mobile phone I think they are an appalling invention, an unwelcome intrusion into life and a main cause in this country being uncompetitive because people can't get through the day without them.
I have never bought designer clothes and don't have Sky TV
Nope, they are luxuries as you don't need them to live. But that does not stop people from getting them.
Because they are not a necessity does not mean people should not have them if they can afford them. I have an 8 year old car, if I could afford an equivalent new model it would be more economical, safer, and cost less in Road fund licence.
The reason we are paying more in council tax and NI is to pay for peoples wages. As people working in those sectors say we need more money to pay the bills. So then there wages go up and of course council and NI go up to cover them.
We are also paying to ensure they get their pensions too although ours do not get gauranteed. Fortunately my employers pension scheme is currently guaranteed, providing of course I don't get made redundant in the next 20 years. We are also funding the benefits and housing the labour government readily gives to any body that wants to come into this country. A work colleague had to wait over a year to find out whetther Australia would allow him to emigrate there and he was taking £180,000 from the equity he realised from selling his house. Other European countries have shut their doors from allowing people into their countries, but it would seem Labour will allow anyone in to put further strain on us

You went on earlier about it is the governments fault manufacturing is leaving the uk. Nope, again it is the wages in this country. People want too much money. So what does the company do. Oh that is a toughie. Shall we pay £50 a day to worker in the uk or £5 a week to worker in another country with a lower cost of living. With companies trying to make profits I know which they would choose.

I personally know of companies that have lost contracts and even shut sites down because the widget they produced they can be got from example china for 5p but in this country the same widget cost £1. Look at big companies why for example do banks out source call centres to India. Umm cheaper labour.
People need the higher wages because the Government is pushing up the need through their taxation. Companies are moving to other counties not purely out of cost but out of a means to remain competitive and survival. Manufacturing is moving abroad, call centres are moving abroad, Banking is available on the internet, how long before non manufacturing companies move abroad too to reduce their costs. Very soon the only people who will have jobs other than civil servants will be the likes of plumbers and electricians and the only people able to pay them for their work will be people rich enough that they don't need to work anyway. The rest of us will be on benefits.

It is a no win situation and is not going to get any better. We need to get the cost of living down in this country. But I don't expect that to happen any time soon.


Yours


Calley

I wish I was in the position where I could leave this country and give my kids a future, because the outlook is looking gloomier by the second.

Tr@cker

Sustained low interest rates have fuelled rising debts-personal bankruptcy has rocketed in the last few years. Yes i do lay some of the blame with the institutions and there irresponsible lending, the problem from their point of view i think is if one or two of them take an ethical stance on lending this would probably equate with a loss of business-they're all cutting one and others throats to grab consumers.
It's also a good way of controlling the masses IMO-if you're in debt your employer for example absolutely has you by the curlies, the government know this and so dont appear to be doing much about a society up to their necks in it.

lynzpower

I do disagree with You mm2000.

You make out that civil servants are on some sort of gravy train. Most of the money that comes into my team ( older peoples social services) isnt going on salaries really, its going on client care, be it paying for someone s meals on wheels, or putting in stairlifts or whatever. Do away with us, and what have you got? Likewise in educations, childrens social work, the bin men, whatever. It all costs money, and most of the revenue in London is raised from business rates and not from council tax.

I dont think my income tax has risen while I can remember, certainly last year I got an extra 40 quid a year tax free, I have a middle income ( in fact this government has consistently raised the tax free allowances for all of us since coming in) and of course the minimum wage, and tax credits. Council tax has risen slightly but then I look at my local enviroment & services have improved consistently ( more recycling, better street lighting, less litter, parks better kept) so I dont mind paying an extra tenner a year or whatever it works out at for me.

I do not accept that things are getting worse, in fact for my clients at the very margins of society are getting more.

I disp[ute your point aobout other european countries restricting movement as this is illegal under EU law. Anyone within EU can freely move to other EU countries, and live and work there. FYI, benefits are not available to accession country applicants until they are ordinarily resident which on some of the cases Ive worked on, its a year or more before some get any money, after disablement for example.

I dont understand all this blahing about "stealth taxes" thats newspaper speak. Most of them are known for speed cameras ( dont speed then) increase in petrol ( there are alternatives) and the like.

Walnut_whipp

I guess I could say that my debt is my fault... but circumstance has a lot to do with my debt.

Being left a single mother in a low paid job, and no financial help from my childs father. I could not have paid for food with out using my credit card!!! Its a depressing spiral...

If I did not have my child I could have had a full time job and paid off the debt!!!

I have nearly £27,000 of debt.... At no point did the debt allow me to go on a holiday..or buy a new car or have a plasma screen t.v.

I have nothing to show for the money....not even any new clothes!!!

The debt is made up of the interest!!!

I buy Clarks shoes for my son... expensive yes but worth the money YES. His clothes are second and third hand....

I dont own my own home.. I rent.... I work part time for the income so I am not totally reliant on state benefit...


I do blame the bank and the lenders... they knew my monthly income...(low0 and yest one bank who were changing credit system... put through a £7,500 loan on the new system and it got declined!!! (and so it should with my low income)... however being the helpful bank that they are... they put it through the old system and guess what... it went through!!!!!

May be I should of declined the offer from the bank... It was them that suggested the loan!!! to help me out of a hole... It allowed me to buy food and petrol and pay my living expences for a short while....

Im debating about complaining to the ombudsmon about the fact the loan was put through on an old system.... but knowing my luck they would tell me it was tought on my part!!!

So yes I blame my circumstances and myself but I mainly blame the bank!!!!

Thriftylady

The debts I have at the moment (which thankfully, due to a lightbulb moment I am well on the way to paying off) were 100% my own fault. I can even pin point exactly how - I hated my job and the company I worked for (stood up to the office bully and got demoted for my efforts, no wonder I was miserable.) Despite having the most fantastic, supportive husband, I couldn't see all the good things in my life, only the bad, and for some reason I thought that all this pain would be eased by, oh, a beautiful pair of shoes, an expensive facial, because every day of my life was a struggle that I couldn't bear, and surely I deserved some happiness, right? I could hardly have been any more wrong. And now, every time I pay a lump off my credit card bill, I'm on the one hand delighted and on the other I'm so furious with myself for letting (amongst other things) that bully reduce me to such a state that I'm still paying for it years later. No more, I can tell you !!

Having said that, I was also in a different situation, a few years earlier, where we ran into debt that I truly do believe was not our fault. It was simple, the same situation that so many others find themselves in. My husband was made redundant and my salary just didn't go any where close to covering the basic costs of living. My net salary was something like £600 and as I had a long commute to work this ate up nearly half my salary (combination of bus ticket and running the car, which was essential as we were not on a connecting bus route or within walking distance of the bus station) and the mortgage took up most of the other half. Selling up was not an option as there was not sufficient equity in our house. We had no savings as we were both newly out of university and had not had time to build any up. It was hell on earth and not something I would wish on anyone.....(well, maybe that bully I mentioned earlier!!). We had to pay for petrol, groceries, etc on credit cards as we had no other option, there was nothing to cut back on, no savings to be made. But what made me most angry was that there was no government support for people in our situation, not even free prescriptions, yet had neither of us worked we would have been entitled to far more. I'm not having a go at anyone who receives benefits, I believe that a civilised society should help those who need it, but it seems madness to me that there is so little support for those who want to help themselves.

Anyway, sorry this is such a long post, but I think its such an interesting debate. I know that some debt was 100% my fault, and I also feel that some was beyond my control. But I'm not sure if I can agree with some of the other posters that blame lies with the banks. I hate defending them, I really do, as an industry they profit massively off those who can least afford it, but when banks lend to people they really are expecting to get their money back - chasing up bad debt is an expense they don't want. When they refuse to lend to people, e.g. those on poor incomes, they are immediately accused of neglecting the poorer members of society. I don't pretend to have the answer for this, but its certainly not as simple of 'they should have known I couldn't pay it back'. If the bank should have known, then surely the individual (who knows their own situation best of all) should also have known and hence not borrowed in the first place ?

Ordinary_Joe

Molanole wrote:

So, who's for the plain English campain and financial literacy in schools?

I'm right with you on this one. I read the book Rich Dad Poor Dad by Robert Kyosaki. If anyone hasn't read it it's a real eye opener. It puts so many of the arguments here into context such as why taxing the rich more won't work. I'm re-reading it for the 5th time in a year and I'm still learning for it. Having read it I feel much better for not having gone to University.

It's vital that we get sound financial education into the curriculum otherwise we will have a real problem on our hands. Bear in mind todays Children want remote control this, Playstation X-box 360 that. If they grow up with this assumption of entitlement the system will cave in on itself when they come to an age to get financial agreements.

Financial literacy needs to come in soon. As Rich Dad Poor Dad puts it it's the same as reading comprehension. We can all read numbers like we can all read words. It's understanding what the numbers are telling us that's important. That has to start in school. If we get it right not only can we help prevent debt - we can grow the country's wealth by becoming a nation of smart investors, which is a much less precarious way than the current way.

Plain English would be a great starting point while we develop our financial literacy. That way we can work out what the deal is with our loan terms etc