Who is responsible for our debt?

mm2000

lynzpower wrote:

MM2000

You want to be very careful that your responses do not get classed as racist, I folr one take offence at them. Its my opinion that "immigrants" keep london going, doing the jobs that no one else will do. there was also a programme on c4 not so long since about farming in norfolk going to the dogs as no one but "immigrants" are willing to work for the minimum wage on the farms packing veg fro the supermarkets. It does sound to me, and from reading in the press that the area you live in is racist too blaming the so-called outsiders for precieved problems in the community.

I wont take a pay cut as I am at the top of my scale, which also means I am not entitled to any more payrises.

At the end of the day, alternatives to driving are
a) LPG ( its not easy being green showed them making LPG out of old chip fat in a shed, not for everyone but it can be done), buying a pushbike, having electric run cars, or even walking or getting the bus, tube/ trains. "how long before the governement raises duty on that too " well we dont know, but NOW its cheaper, as is walking or getting a bike.

You say " when all the businesses are gone". quite frankly thats doomsday talk and its not gonna happen. We are all going to need businesses. As regards to outsourcing to the developing world, many companies are actually bringing thier call centres and fulfillment back to the UK, as we all know that calling india to pay a bill is fraught with problems and is a major complaint of consumers.

Firstly none of my comments have been racist, all I have stated is this governmant lets too many people into the country without properly vetting them first to prove that they have a job lined up or they are bringing money into the country and won't be sponging off the rest of us who work for a living. It recently took one of my work colleagues almost 2 years to convince the Australians he was fit to emigrate to Australia with his wife and two children and he is a skilled engineer with £180,000 realised from the sale of his house.
The place I work has more different races than you could probably name. Of the 400+ people, I say I know 80% of them and would consider most of them mates and I feel confident they would consider me the same. The other 20% would just be people I don't know because we've never met.

With regards to your alternatives to driving,
LPG conversions on cars cost £1500 pound and not everyone gets the government grant. It is not readily available in all petrol garages.
The chip fat you speak of is used as a replacement for deisel not petrol plus you cannot run it soley on this fuel you have to run it on diesel as well and lpg cars also have to be run on a period of petrol too as neither of these alternative fuels lubricate the engines properly unlike the additives in diesel and petrol. Failure to do this can result in costly engine damage sometimes terminal.
I live approximately 10 miles from work and it would take two buses and a train to commute and as I work shifts it doesn't quite gel. I do use a bike from time to time but not really worth it if it is pouring with rain and dicing with traffic on main roads early in the morning or around 11:00 at night plus if I get the oppertunity to work a few extra hours on the end of a late shift I don't relish the thought of riding home at 1:00 in the morning, too many idiots about.
This country is not geared up for electric cars (No where to plug them in to recharge). Fords did have an electric car called Think wwhich was made in Norway but no revenue to be found for the government so it fell flat on it's face. Ford still have one or two, the rest they shipped back to Norway.
It is hard for me to get my wheel chair bound father on and off buses when he needs to go to the hospital and the same goes for my disabled father in law. Don't presume no one needs a car and if no one needed cars and walked cycled or used poor public transport, then you've just made a hell of alot of people redundant around the world.
As far as Dooms day not happening, how many businesses have merged, thus making people redundant. Quite a few. How many Banks have merged and closed down branches making people redundant because they don't need two branches in the same street. Quite a few. All these Banks also provide online banking thus making more people redundant. Eventually as banks need fewer workers they will be able to set up overseas and just have a skeleton staff in this country. The same will happen for other businesses just so they can compete against the others overseas.

dippy-dora_2

I blame my OH;)
although my debt is what alot of you would crave to have it seems to be never ending.
My dad has paid 300 pound of it off, and I seem to have been paying the rest off for years and years. Maybe 4 years, and the sad part of it is most of what I'm paying for I don't have as they were fixtures to my previous property
I'd advise no one to get an Argos card.
I borrowed 600 pound on it and with the interest I reckon by the time it's paid off it's going to be more like 1500!!
havn't done the figures but with only being able to afford minimum payments every month I pay far more in interest than is coming off the bulk.
Plus the fact that they have 17.50 late charge fee which I wasn't aware of at the time.

Since I got my debt they now put what you will eventually owe in the back of their catalogue, it was all vague when I thought it was a good idea.

So for anyone thinking of running up a store card think again, going through Kays catalogue would be better.

heppy23

bobbiebob wrote:

Just to add,

Why in the UK must we all strive to own our own homes.

Throughout the rest of mainland Europe people tend to rent. Why is it we as a nation feel we must own our castles.

Look at the cost of housing these days its absolutley rediculos. No wonder kids stop at home longer its almost impossible to get anything affordable unless its in a slum area.

If I sold my house tommorow (which I bought 4 years ago) and spent the money on a round the world Cruise and a Porsche, I could not afford to repurchase it due to the asking price..

Wheres the sence in that...

Interesting point. People seem to think they have some sort of right or duty to own property.

My grandparents didn't own their homes, they rented.

The thing that makes me laugh is people saying "you don't want to save or have a pension, put it in your house, that can be your pension".

All very well but when you are 80, skint but living in a house worth loads then you have to think about selling.

It's that same with people bragging how much their house is worth, all very well but try and buy something better/similar and see how you get on.
What about when your kids grow up and want somewhere to live?

Thriftylady

I suppose a lot of the obsession with owning your own home stems from the fact that its often cheaper on a month by month basis to pay a mortgage than to pay rent on the same type of home. I can't speak for everywhere, I only know what its like in my area, but my first home would have cost me double in rent what it did in mortgage repayments. My current home is probably about £150 per month cheaper in terms of mortgage than it would be to rent. Obviously this would depend on the individuals circumstances , amount of deposit etc, but I'm certainly not the only person in this position. So when you look at it like that, it would be madness for me not to have a mortgage.

Kevicho

The reason getting a mortgage and paying (over)that every month is that it adds to your own value (ie you own something or part of something), whereas renting is just paying out to someone else and you dont own anything

However the deifintion of Mortgage is not a good one, hence why it is a good idea to pay it off as quickly as possible

WORD HISTORY The great jurist Sir Edward Coke, who lived from 1552 to 1634, has explained why the term mortgage comes from the Old French words mort, “dead,” and gage, “pledge.” It seemed to him that it had to do with the doubtfulness of whether or not the mortgagor will pay the debt. If the mortgagor does not, then the land pledged to the mortgagee as security for the debt “is taken from him for ever, and so dead to him upon condition, &c. And if he doth pay the money, then the pledge is dead as to the [mortgagee].” This etymology, as understood by 17th-century attorneys, of the Old French term morgage, which we adopted, may well be correct. The term has been in English much longer than the 17th century, being first recorded in Middle English with the form morgage and the figurative sense “pledge” in a work written before 1393.

Kevicho

dippy-dora wrote:

I
I borrowed 600 pound on it and with the interest I reckon by the time it's paid off it's going to be more like 1500!!

This 100% highlights that the use of credit makes you pay more for things, and is basically compound interest working against you

Rule #1 Paying cash may take longer to save up but is a cheaper way to buy (although in one off emergencies a credit card can be the only option)

Thriftylady

And I also meant to say in my earlier post that outside of big cities its not that easy to rent anyway as rental properties would be fairly scarce in a lot of areas.

Sea78

I am fully respsonsible for my debt (as is OH for his share of our debt). I felt I 'deserved' what I was buying and had no clue but then carried on. Stupid. No excuse. Should have budgeted when off on 2 mat leaves but didn't. Makes me annoyed when I think about it too much, but at least I'm facing it now an dpaying it off. feel really in control and much better about myself as a person.

An interesting thing I did with my year 11s the other day - we often use the Real Game in school and I hadn't done the scheme of work with my tutor group. However, it gives you a job, expenses, family situaiton etc and the students have to plan what they will spend on what and how they will save. We didn't have time to go though all that so we made a list of exactly what they wanted to have when they moved out of home. It was not a surprise (car, big tv, family, marriage, a lot of different material things, going out money).
I then asked what jobs they wanted...got the average wages for these and then showed it minus tax and NI. Then the expenses of living - food, bills, rent etc. (this site helped there!! ). The kids were shocked. They had no idea that there would be that much difference. Wish I'd had time to take about APR! :eek:

Surely then, while it would be their fault if they spent too much and went into debt, we need to be doing more at home/in school to educate against the barrage of advertising (the virgin advert Really makes me mad, on so many levels!!). I know percentages etc are taught in maths...but we need to bring it all together in specific lessons (eg linking % to APR etc)...I think citizenship will hopefully eventually cover this. I really hope so.

What do you think? Yes, some whose parents/school taught them fully about money may still be in debt and terroble with money, but surely it could only help?

Sea xx

halloweenqueen_2

One thing we learnt the hard way is its a hell of a lot more eay to get into than out of!

fivemice

I am responsible for the mess I am in (well, my husband is responsible too!) but I think advertising needs to change. At midnight on my 18th birthday I applied for a credit card because I thought that's what everybody did - everybody has a credit card right? Well I got declined (not sure why) and I think it sparked a bit of an obsession for me, *somewhere* had to give me one, right? Wrong. I eventually got a £200 credit card (which my husband maxed out within a week :eek:), and then my husband bought us a sofa on credit - we never thought he'd get through the credit checks!! So then I thought I'd try for a Next account because I never got to spending anything on my credit card :doh: Then it was just bad financial planning, cars breaking down and not havings savings so needing to take out loans for cars...

So yes, I am responsible, but the advertising idea that it's normal to have a credit card for treats you can't really afford is not good for youngsters IMO.