Bank charges

IvanOpinion

lizzie47 wrote:

Live within means,reckless,guilable,dumb public,cavalier approach to money,stupid,dishonest, An then the cheek to claim it back......Last straw Ivan.....Just who do you think you are sitting in judgement...:mad: of me and others "claiming back" what the banks have STOLEN ...yes STOLEN.Yes i have what has been termed "A SOB" story but i and other decent folk are most certaintly none of your above adjectives...Go on a few "claim it back sites" and get in the real world ivan. have a read of the "sob storys" you may find on reading through a few posts,about how decent hard working law abiding folk have been "had" and by no fault of there own ended up on the sharp end.I truly hope you keep your health and wealth and dont fall foul of the underhanded bully boy ILLEAGLE tactics employed by the banks...as millions of us lesser mortals have..There for the grace of god go i...Have a good look then come back having informed yourself..
you may well find you have joined the long ever expanding(and rightly so) queue of very very mad "cutomers" I cant belive your attitude :mad:

Been there done that got the tee-shirt ... grown up ... became a mature adult that looked into what was right for me ... have switched banks several times because they did not meet my needs ... have an account that suits my purposes (at this point of time) ... it took little time and virtually no intelligence to sort out. I stand by many of the adjectives I have used ... what do you call people who have a bank account that does not suit their purposes or are incapable of simple mathematics ... please give me a new adjective. How about we add selfish and greedy ... part of the me-me-me society were we must have everything today ... oh, I think that is covered under the 'cavalier approach to money management'.

The most laughable word has now been used .. 'STOLEN' ... this almost puts an end to the credibility of the argument but I will assume it is meant purely in an emotive context). We also know that if we break the speed limit we will get fined £60 .. virtually no administration charge .. is that money 'stolen'? In both cases you broke the rules and you had been made aware of what would happen in advance.

It is the job of the marketeer to promote a product (and they are damn good at it .. they can convince the naive, the gullible and the stupid very easily in a few words .. I am just surprised that otherwise intelligent people fall for it ... every time). It is the job of a mature adult to see through this marketing clap-trap and do their own comparisons and investigation .. and lets be honest that has become so easy now with comparative sites on the web .. so somebody else has already done your homework for you (so you don't even have to think very hard about it).

I have said it before and I will say it again ... credit is a privilege not a right. I would have sympathy with any argument that stops people from getting credit until they prove they can manage their money or can pay it back .. however I can also see flaws in that .. we live in a 'now' society that thrives on credit .. maybe the problem is that people believe they do not have to pay their fines and penalties and are therefore becoming even more cavalier .. maybe it is time the courts started enforcing much heavier fines .. sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind.

Ivan

moonrakerz

IvanOpinion wrote:

.. maybe it is time the courts started enforcing much heavier fines ..
Ivan

You still just don't get the most important point in this long discussion Ivan - neither the banks NOR the courts can fine you for breaking a contract. It is not allowed in English (and Scottish ?) Law.
Why are you seemingly incapable of accepting this simple FACT ?

I'm off to dicuss nuclear physics with my daughter's rabbits now, I stand a better chance of having a sensible two way chat !

mrcow

LondonDiva wrote:

Nobody 'lets' anyone get overdrawn.

:rotfl:Of course they do!

Fifteen years ago, Lloyds would not let me withdraw money if it would send my account into unauthorised overdraft. The transaction would be declined.

These days it's a different story. The bank will further my brother cash regardless of hs balance. Why is this? Because they know that they are going a make a nice hefty penalty off the back of it. There is no warning (which by the way would cost next to nothing to flash up on the screen).

He asked the bank last year if they could put a provision on his account that they just refuse any transactions that would send him over his limit. They refused.

Mark7799

mrcow wrote:

:rotfl:Of course they do!

There is no warning (which by the way would cost next to nothing to flash up on the screen).

He asked the bank last year if they could put a provision on his account that they just refuse any transactions that would send him over his limit. They refused.

He has the option to check his balance through the ATM and on line though - can't he do any checks before spending any money? Does he keep any record of his expenditure? Does he know what direct debits and standing orders he has signed up to and when they are due?

mrcow

Mark7799 wrote:

He has the option to check his balance through the ATM and on line though - can't he do any checks before spending any money?

He could but he doesn't. (btw the on screen balance is not always up to date, just in case you didnt realise) and he couldn't probably tell you his overdraft limit if you asked him.

Does he keep any record of his expenditure?

No

Does he know what direct debits and standing orders he has signed up to and when they are due?

No he doesn't

He could of course, but he's not perfect. He's a 25 year old single bloke who doesn't give money much of a thought. It's infuriating to someone like me, or indeed anyone who'd be money savvy enough to join a site like this (yourself included), but there are thousands of people like him all over the country, and the banks know it.

All of which of course is irrelevent to the point that I was making. The banks WANT him to go over his limit, because it's good business for them. My point was that 15 years ago, this wasn't happening. Now it would seem to me that the banks are practically encouraging it by furthering money to people who simply don't have the funds. When he's asked them to put some quite simple checks and balances on his account, they've flatly refused.

He doesn't go over his limit all the time. It happens a couple of times a year but over the past six years it's added up to over £800 of charges. He only ever deals with cash, so each time he goes over, the bank have authorised the money as a cashpoint withdrawal.

golddustmedia

Looking at the OP, I have to say I would walk with my feet and bank elsewhere. Not because they are refusing to let you but because it's not in your interests to do so.

At the end of the day, you are a customer and they make money from you. If you take away your business they lose out.

I have banked with the Royal Bank of Scotland since I was 3 years old! (26 years now!) and have always had excellent service. I've never had any unreasonable charges and have often had them refunded when I've asked or discussed them.

I often hear of friends and others having banking problems and find out it's HSBC, or Barclays and I just think well you choose to bank with them!

Do yourself a favour, don't fight them withdrawing your banking with them, Embrace it! Write them a letter saying how delighted you are to find they no longer wish to have your business and you are happy to provide custom to a competitor. Perhaps also wish them luck with applying the same customer loyalty plan to other bank customers who you look forward to seeing in another bank soon.

Astaroth

moonrakerz wrote:

You still just don't get the most important point in this long discussion Ivan - neither the banks NOR the courts can fine you for breaking a contract. It is not allowed in English (and Scottish ?) Law.
Why are you seemingly incapable of accepting this simple FACT ?

A courts can fine you for breach of contract. What they cannot do is award punative damages. What do you think courts do when you take someone to court for breach of contract if not fining (aka awarding damanges)? Tell you off and slap your wriste (though in this day and age that would probably be seen as assult)

The courts can award damages up to the amount lost or can award a nominal amount where there has been no true loss (eg you order a CD from shop A and it doesnt show up so you had to buy it from shop B at the same price).

I am sure you have also heard in the news about how the penalty clauses for building Wembly will now mean the building company makes a loss as they have to pay in the region of £100,000 per day late they are on the build - if you say that fines are illegal why were the papers full of the cost to the builders if they can just turn round and say they arent paying them?

In my view a £20-30 charge is nominal especially when a person has explicity signed up to them.

Also lets all remember that the banks to date have not contested the cases (which is not an admission of guilt but a cost benefit analysis case) and therefore it is unknown if the courts would consider the fees to be excessive. the MSE own artical states that it is a belief and not a fact!

asharon

I understand fees might be too high and the ruling about saying everything over £18 is excessive. So why aren't the banks simply refund the amount over the £18 then ?

Astaroth

1) Because there hasnt actually been any "superior" court case yet to test what acceptable fees are (arguably there hasnt even been a case to see if these are penalty clauses or simply handling fees)

2) Banks are PLCs and therefore are answerable to their shareholders. As such they wont give out free money (which their shareholders wouldnt like) unless they have to.

IvanOpinion

I'm off to dicuss nuclear physics with my daughter's rabbits now, I stand a better chance of having a sensible two way chat !

I wouldn't bother they can do arithmetic at kindrgarten level which is more than enough to operate a bank account which they appear to be doing very effectively .. unless you are going to tell me otherwise .. I haven't seen any news reports that your bunnies have been overdrawn .. maybe they are more intelligent than the average person that incurs charges

Ivan