Warranty help really needed please.

soblivion

I'm so sorry this is so long but I really need help.
My daughter bought a brand new car from a dealership. It is just under 2 years old and has done 14,450 miles. It had a 3yr warranty on it from new. It has been serviced twice but not at a the dealership but at a VAT registered garage.
I'm having a problem understanding the warranty and wondered if some one could clarify for me please. I realise a warranty doesn't cover everything, chippings on body work, brake pads, tyres etc as that is wear and tear. I understand that if my daughter hit a curb hard and dragged out the bottom of the car that wouldn't be covered by warranty as that wouldn't be sensible driving. So I'm not naive to think that a warranty covers every eventuality but could someone put me straight on the following please:
Please bear in mind I'm female and can only tell it as I understand it.
Last week the engine warning light came on on the car and it began messing around - top speed of 60mph, would lose power then speed up all of sudden, almost stalling but not quite. DD took it to the dealership and asked them to have a look which they did. They rang her to say that they would not repair the vehicle under warranty and they had spoken to the manufacturer who would not cover it either because of the following:
The cam belt has a hole in the middle of the belt, it has jumped and moved out by 1mm and slipped the cogs so the timing is out and there are marks in between every cog. Customer services said, either a rodent got in or my 21 year old DD took the cover off the cambelt and took a screwdriver to it and pierced the belt or the garage where it was serviced did it or a stone got caught in it.
I got the job of inspecting the car. They showed me the belt, I asked them if a rodent got into it would it mark every cog on a metal object on it's way round and manage to chew a hole in the belt - No! There was no nesting material or chewed wires or pipes that I could see.
I asked was there anything to suggest the cover had been removed prior to their mechanic removing it - No!
Did they really believe my DD had removed the cover tampered with the belt caught and marked every single cog with a screwdriver on the way round - No!
The VAT registered garage who did the service have said they have not touched the cam belt.
I asked the dealership why the garage who serviced the car would check the cam belt on a service of a car when it only had 14,450 miles on the clock, they said if DD bought the car to them for the service they would have done. I asked why? when the manual says check belt at 37,472 miles, it is just something we do, VAT registered garages would be working from a different sheet to us so they wouldn't know they had to. I asked if they worked from a different sheet and didn't know they had to check belt at 14,450 So would that not suggest to you in all probability that they didn't touch it then? He said ummmm welllll urrrr yes. I said thank you.
As I understand it checking this cam belt thing is not a 5 minute job, on the VAT registered garage bill there was no mention of cam belt and I can't see anyone checking it and not billing for it.
I asked about the stone getting in, they said it may have got in between the cover and then into the belt, I said, surely the cover is there to protect it? He said well yes! I said is the cover faulty, No! I asked if there was a design flaw, he said not that they or the manufacturer were aware of, I asked what measures could be taken to ensure that 30 miles up the road this would not happen again, ermmm none!
As far as I understand it DD has not purposely caused this to happen, she has kept the warranty valid and it doesn't seem to me to be wear and tear either??
The dealership have told her she is not a valued customer as she has not had the car serviced by them and only turned up for a recall fix. I thought that was breach of the law, EU legislation states that since May 2004 a warranty or dealership cannot say where a car is serviced anymore? They also told her if the manufacturer does pay for it they will not fix it.(They did not say why) DD didn't ask as she was in tears by this time.
I have spoken with the manufacturer who have said it is her own fault but will give £100 towards the bill as a good will gesture.
It needs a new belt a new cog thing and timing adjusted.
Should DD accept the money and run? I'm involved so it's hard to be objective sometimes I know and if it's one of those things and everything's fair then fine.
If you all think that that's right(I've never had something for nothing and don't intend to start now) must she have the repair carried out at the dealers(if the manufacturer can force them to repair it??) or can she go to the VAT registered garage. I'm trying to be objective but I think to be told your not a valued customer when you bought a new car from them is a bit much, we haven't at any point been rude to anybody.
Any advice would be very much appreciated.
Thank you.

overlander

They are at it big time, take this further, rodent who the heck would believe that crock of !!!!.

plane_boy2000

Sadly this is where the block exemption rules dont really work. Its very difficult for you to prove that the car was maintained to the manufacturers spec when the work was carried out by someone outside of the dealer network who may / may not have had access to the latest information. TBH I dont understand why people take new cars out of the dealer network, but that wont help you.

Also worth remembering that EU only require a manufacturer to provide a 2 year warranty so the extra year is often an incentive based on you keeping up dealer servicing.

I guess you could consider legal action but this would be full of issues. You could end up spending a fortune to disprove the garage / manufacturers. A better first point of call may be a car magazine such as auto express, or local rag. they may be willing to run with it, and the publicity may force their hand.......

Out of interest what car is it?

goldspanners

what car is it?
i would be taking this further, i wouldnt be accepting a measly £100 from the manufacturer. and why on earth will the dealer not fix it for you even if you were to pay?
14k and 2 years isnt a long period of time or mileage for a timing belt. it shouldnt just have holes appearing and be jumping teeth, if has jumped teeth them maybe the belt wasnt tensioned properly in the first place from the factory?
you might need to start making legal threats towards your dealer, have you spoken to the manager of the dealer or just the service manager?

soblivion

Thank you to you all for replying.
overlander - I tend not to make a fuss but I did think there would be other evidence if it was rodent.
Plane_boy2000 - I fully understand what you are saying re taking car elsewhere for servicing, the only thing I can say is my DD doesn't earn very much money and it was £200 cheaper for the service - false sense of economy no doubt now on hindsight but she has bought it on credit so doesn't have a lot of money left over after that.
goldspanners - Its a fiat punto - I didn't know if I'd be allowed to say that?
I spoke to the manager and I did say to him that I was going to talk to consumer direct to see if they could advise me. About 10 minutes after I got home the phone rang and the manager said he'd spoken to consumer direct and they'd told him that as my DD's car was on finance it was between the credit company and fiat to sort out, nothing to do with them(the dealer at all) he said he had got a reference number from consumer direct so we could all work from the same page. I didn't phone consumer direct because I didn't want the same ref no as the dealer, it didn't seem right to me?

jeannieblue

Ok.......

Now, if the car was serviced by a garage that is VAT registered and it was serviced according to manufacturers recommendations (ie annually or 10k) and genuine or OE parts used....... then you have not invalidated your warranty. The dealership is full of bull stuff.

When servicing - you go nowhere near the cam belt so don't see how the garage can be blamed for that! I think they are deliberately giving you a hard time. Is there another Fiat dealership near you? I would ring around and see if you can get some decent assistance. Meanwhile, ring Fiat customer services direct I don't mean the dealership). Some of them can be helpful.

This is really an odd one - I hope you get some good help.

soblivion

thank you for replying jeannieblue, yes I have rung fiat customer services direct in Italy, lots of times last week and today, it's an english speaking place with a free phone number, as I say they have offered £100 as a goodwill gesture.
They are saying that because it is not a manufacturing fault and something has been introduced to the cam belt but as you see above they have no evidence of that and I can't pin them as to what it is, it's my DD's fault.
I could quite honestly have staked my life on the fact that it isn't anything to do with the VAT registered garage and I really don't believe they messed the cam belt up.
My DD's car is stuck at the dealer garage and has been all week. The manager said it could be driven home. We haven't been to collect it as the timing is out and if the cam belt snaps and ruins the engine on the way home, will the dealer then say we knew of the problem and have voided the warranty?
I also can say in all honesty that my DD wouldn't know what a cam belt cover was let alone be able to find it and remove it.
I don't know if something has fallen off the engine into the cam belt, they said they didn't find anything but would it still be there?
I just don't know anything about cars but I just wondered if people thought I was being unfair and expecting too much.

jeannieblue

Probably expecting too much........ which is very, very sad. Fiat and alot of others are really trying very hard to discourage people to buy their cars as the aftersales service is so very poor.

In your position, I would get the car 'rescued' to the independent that you trust, and get them to change the cam belt and tensioners/idlers where appropriate. It won't be that costly. Keep the bill, do some more research and try and claim the money back.

It really is worth getting a second and third opinion on this - meanwhile, get the car out of there! My opinion, for what its worth.

Good luck!

goldspanners

i would be getting your finance company involved, call them and let them know, i dont have any experience of this but ive seen a few folk advise it on here and it seems to sway the dealer into repairing under warranty if they get a call from your finance company. or so we see on here sometimes.
after all the finance company own the car until you fully pay it dont they.

soblivion

Thanks goldspanner, my DD phoned the finance company last week and was told to put it in writing so they have a note of it but it's not something they get involved in.

I've been to an independent garage this morning and they said the cover is there to protect the cam belt and yes there is a very remote chance that a rodent got in it but no it wouldn't have chewed the metal cog thing on it's way round, they had a little chuckle at that too. They think in all honesty something will have fallen off in to it. A stone shouldn't have got in it as that's what the cover is for. They think we're being taken for a ride.

My DD has decided to void her warranty altogether and get the car fixed at the garage that did the service and pay for it herself, she's fed up of not having her car, she's fed up of the service(or lack there of) at the dealers and fiat and she's almost certain that fiat will decline to pay the £100 to a garage that isn't fiat dealership but she doesn't care anymore. She's 21 year old and just wants her car back. Same old story, she'll not buy another fiat or buy from the dealership again. She said she can't afford to pay any one to fight her corner and risk she'll lose as is 9/10 times what happens and although common sense says she hasn't touched the cam belt that's never enough and she'll never be able to prove it.
Thank you again to you all for replying and your help and advice on this.

Anihilator

soblivion wrote: »

Thanks goldspanner, my DD phoned the finance company last week and was told to put it in writing so they have a note of it but it's not something they get involved in.

I've been to an independent garage this morning and they said the cover is there to protect the cam belt and yes there is a very remote chance that a rodent got in it but no it wouldn't have chewed the metal cog thing on it's way round, they had a little chuckle at that too. They think in all honesty something will have fallen off in to it. A stone shouldn't have got in it as that's what the cover is for. They think we're being taken for a ride.

My DD has decided to void her warranty altogether and get the car fixed at the garage that did the service and pay for it herself, she's fed up of not having her car, she's fed up of the service(or lack there of) at the dealers and fiat and she's almost certain that fiat will decline to pay the £100 to a garage that isn't fiat dealership but she doesn't care anymore. She's 21 year old and just wants her car back. Same old story, she'll not buy another fiat or buy from the dealership again. She said she can't afford to pay any one to fight her corner and risk she'll lose as is 9/10 times what happens and although common sense says she hasn't touched the cam belt that's never enough and she'll never be able to prove it.
Thank you again to you all for replying and your help and advice on this.

How long between the car being serviced and the fault? I would have to wonder if the mechanic left something somewhere he shouldnt.

The warranty itself covers abnormal/manufacturing faults. If you think its caused by one of these you need to get an independent report confirming this in which case you have a warranty claim.

What Fiat has offered is a goodwill gesture. These are one benefit of a dealer history as if the car develops a non warranty fault they are far more likely to pay up some of the cost.

Whilst I feel for your daughter I dont know how she can blame Fiat as the independent garage seems to have backed their stance that the belt wasnt faulty but instead something got in the cover and caused the fault. Now given they havent touched the car you cant even blame them for that.

I think in the circumstances £100 probably is a good offer.

God knows why your daughter wants to invalidate the warranty. That said getting the repair done elsewhere wont invalidate the warranty as long as its a proper part and repair.