Shares capital gains more confusion

lotsadogs

Biggles wrote: »

You will certainly have to think about CGT when you dispose of your existing holdings.

I would suggest you go here: http://cgtcalculator.com/default.htm, read the instructions, and input the details of all your transactions into the calculator.

.

Having used that calculator, it seems I have made a loss of £181M :eek: .Guessing I have some decimal points in teh wrong place.

payless

seems generally LIFO (last in first out!) expect for same day or 30 day -

think this explains the rules

http://www.fool.co.uk/Your-Money/guides/Capital-Gains-Tax-Share-Identification-Rules.aspx

albeit been tweaked a bit since

The 30-day rule applies only to a share sale followed by a purchase of the same share within that time. So if you bought some shares then sell them, after which you repurchase them within 30 days, the chargeable gain or loss is based on the selling price less the repurchase cost.

Biggles

lotsadogs wrote: »

Having used that calculator, it seems I have made a loss of £181M. Guessing I have some decimal points in teh wrong place.

Maybe you put the prices in as pence - IIRC, they need to go in as pounds, eg instead of entering 170.68, it needs to be 1.7068.

Don't worry about the 30-day rule, share matching etc, the calculator will work that out

00ec25

the OP has made two sales which fall under the 30 day bed and breakfast rule, but the first overlaps the second

the first sale on 15 April is 5000 shares so the costs of those shares are the prices paid to buy the replacements on a first in first out basis (FIFO) starting from the date of sale and going forward 30 days, ie all purachses up to 15 May.
4390 priced @ 16 Apr,
583 priced @ 17 Apr
and the balance is 27 from those priced @ 6 May - hence the overlap with the second sale

the second sale also of 5000 covers the period up to 3 June. However during that period there were less tna 5000 new shares purchased so a balance of "old" shares will also be included in the calculation so the purchase prices are:
4565 - 27 = 4538 priced @ 6 May
190 priced @ 11 May
and the balance 5000-(4538+190)= 272 is drawn from the section 104 holding as all purchases within the 30 day period have been used up so now we return to the shares held before the sale date which are priced at average cost of the entire holding

the section 104 holding comprises those purchased on 10 Mar, 16 Mar and 2 Apr which have not been "sold" because she incurred the B&B override rule

the OP therefore now holds 5190 shares priced at average of 126.135p and will need to use this as the cost when she sells those in the future (assuming she does not do any more B&B or day trades)

her CGT gain for 08/09 is £405.13 being the net gain (excluding stamp duty and commission) from the two B&B trades made this tax year with the residual unsold holding carried forward at the original section 104 holding cost

I can't be bothered to get the formatting correct to allow it to show on here but I have PM'd her a spreadsheet showing the maths

lotsadogs

00ec25 wrote: »

the OP has made two sales which fall under the 30 day bed and breakfast rule, but the first overlaps the second

the first sale on 15 April is 5000 shares so the costs of those shares are the prices paid to buy the replacements ie.
4390 priced @ 16 Apr,
583 priced @ 17 Apr
and the balance is 27 from those priced @ 6 May on a First in first out basis

the second sale also of 5000 and means the purchase prices are:
4565 - 27= 4538 priced @ 6 May
190 priced @ 11 May
and the balance 5000-(4538+190)= 272 drawn from the section 104 holding so priced at average cost

the section 104 holding comprises those purchased on 10 Mar, 16 Mar and 2 Apr which have not been sold because she incurred the B&B override rule

the OP therefore now holds 5190 shares priced at average of 126.135p (total £6,546.41) and will need to use this as the cost when she sells those in the future (assuming she does not do any more B&B or day trades)

her CGT gain for 08/09 is £749.94 being the net gain from the two B&B trades made this tax year with the residual unsold holding carried forward at the original section 104 holding cost

I can't be bothered to get the formatting correct to allow it to show on here but I have PM'd her a spreadsheet showing the maths

Oh my goodness.You have become my hero! :T:T:T. You are a total star.

Thank you sooo soooo soooo much. :j:j:j

I will pm you my email address as requested. I am so greatful for your time and energy. I owe you. I hope one day I might somehow be able to help you - though not I suspect with Capital gains tax issues .

lotsadogs

00ec25 wrote: »

(assuming she does not do any more B&B or day trades)

Oh believe me, I wont!

Biggles

The calculator allows for stamp duty (and I allowed for £15 per trade) and gives the following, a net gain of £189:-

Results generated from www.cgtcalculator.com
SUMMARY INFORMATION
Year CapitalGain Exemption UsePrevLosses TaperRelief ChargeableGain Tax*

---

09-10 189 10100 0 0 0 0
*Please note that tax values are based on capital gains only and assume zero income.
TRADE MATCHING INFORMATION
TAX YEAR 09-10
1. SELL: 5000 BARC on 15/04/2009 at £1.9821 gives LOSS of £526.00
Matches with:
BUY: 16/04/2009 4390 BARC shares of 4390 bought at £2.0445
BUY: 17/04/2009 583 BARC shares of 583 bought at £2.2017
BUY: 06/05/2009 27 BARC shares of 4565 bought at £2.9297
CALCULATION: Loss = £526.00 = ( 5000 * 1.9821 - 15.00 )
- ( 4390 * 2.0445 + 15.00 + 44.87678 )
- ( 583 * 2.2017 + 15.00 + 6.41796 )
- ( 4565 * 2.9297 + 15.00 + 66.8704 ) * ( 27 / 4565 )
2. SELL: 5000 BARC on 05/05/2009 at £3.0003 gives CAPITAL GAIN of £715.00
Matches with:
BUY: 06/05/2009 4538 BARC shares of 4565 bought at £2.9297
BUY: 11/05/2009 190 BARC shares of 190 bought at £2.7844
BUY: SECTION 104 HOLDING. 272 BARC shares of 5462 bought at average price of £1.2759
CALCULATION: Gain = £715.00 = ( 5000 * 3.0003 - 15.00 )
- ( 4565 * 2.9297 + 15.00 + 66.8704 ) * ( 4538 / 4565 )
- ( 190 * 2.7844 + 15.00 + 2.64518 )
- ( 5462 * 1.2759 ) * ( 272 / 5462 )

CURRENT PORTFOLIO
BARC 5190

STATISTICS
Total amount paid in stamp duty = £155.26
Total amount paid in broker's fees = £135.00

Entering a sale of the remainder at today's price shows a total gain for 2009-10 of £12,651 before your allowance of £10,100, and tax would be due of £459.

lotsadogs

Biggles wrote: »

The calculator allows for stamp duty (and I allowed for £15 per trade) and gives the following, a net gain of £189:-

Results generated from www.cgtcalculator.com
SUMMARY INFORMATION
Year CapitalGain Exemption UsePrevLosses TaperRelief ChargeableGain Tax*

---

09-10 189 10100 0 0 0 0
*Please note that tax values are based on capital gains only and assume zero income.
TRADE MATCHING INFORMATION
TAX YEAR 09-10
1. SELL: 5000 BARC on 15/04/2009 at £1.9821 gives LOSS of £526.00
Matches with:
BUY: 16/04/2009 4390 BARC shares of 4390 bought at £2.0445
BUY: 17/04/2009 583 BARC shares of 583 bought at £2.2017
BUY: 06/05/2009 27 BARC shares of 4565 bought at £2.9297
CALCULATION: Loss = £526.00 = ( 5000 * 1.9821 - 15.00 )
- ( 4390 * 2.0445 + 15.00 + 44.87678 )
- ( 583 * 2.2017 + 15.00 + 6.41796 )
- ( 4565 * 2.9297 + 15.00 + 66.8704 ) * ( 27 / 4565 )
2. SELL: 5000 BARC on 05/05/2009 at £3.0003 gives CAPITAL GAIN of £715.00
Matches with:
BUY: 06/05/2009 4538 BARC shares of 4565 bought at £2.9297
BUY: 11/05/2009 190 BARC shares of 190 bought at £2.7844
BUY: SECTION 104 HOLDING. 272 BARC shares of 5462 bought at average price of £1.2759
CALCULATION: Gain = £715.00 = ( 5000 * 3.0003 - 15.00 )
- ( 4565 * 2.9297 + 15.00 + 66.8704 ) * ( 4538 / 4565 )
- ( 190 * 2.7844 + 15.00 + 2.64518 )
- ( 5462 * 1.2759 ) * ( 272 / 5462 )

CURRENT PORTFOLIO
BARC 5190

STATISTICS
Total amount paid in stamp duty = £155.26
Total amount paid in broker's fees = £135.00

Entering a sale of the remainder at today's price shows a total gain for 2009-10 of £12,651 before your allowance of £10,100, and tax would be due of £459.

Oh brillint thank you thank you.

Its even more complicated than I though. I am so glad that there are so many people, so much wiser than me. You too, are my hero :T:T:T