90% Public Sector Final Salary Pension Meltdown Scandal

Old_Slaphead

Generali wrote: »

What happens if my kids don't fancy paying for the services my parents consumed?

If they expect to reside in UK - 'fraid it's pay up or go on dole or go to jail (if there's room)

Old_Slaphead

izzybusy23 wrote: »

If you think the LGPS is gold plated and that folk are so hard done by working for the private sector then join the public sector, instead of harbouring a grudge. Simple really.

Are there 20million vacancies ?

(I understand average number of applicants for LG jobs in my area is 300+)

kabayiri

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

But is 15K a "modest" income when many people currently earn less than that?

Surely by setting the required income that high you just make it unattainabe for many people and they give up. If you set more realistic targets then more people might be prepared to work towards them.

How things change! I quite agree with you. At the time 15K seemed reasonable, now it seems better than many.

Here's an alternative on the pension issue.

Why don't we set out to make life cheap for pensioners on the core essentials in life?

Free bus/train travel; no council tax; significant subsidised energy bills; this combined with a slight boost in state pension may make retirement at least livable for our OAPs.

The real fear for people is grinding poverty when they finish work; whether they can still afford to go abroad on hols becomes somewhat secondary.

StevieJ

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

But is 15K a "modest" income when many people currently earn less than that?

Surely by setting the required income that high you just make it unattainabe for many people and they give up. If you set more realistic targets then more people might be prepared to work towards them.

Good point with 10k tax allowance and no national insurance payment, and probably no mortgage.

StevieJ

Generali wrote: »

If you're paying into a defined contribution private sector scheme then you know what's going in and you can hope to control what you'll get out, subject to the vicissitudes of the markets.

Unless as Slaphead wrote you were with Equitable :eek:

Oldernotwiser

StevieJ wrote: »

Good point with 10k tax allowance and no national insurance payment, and probably no mortgage.

I know. My husband worked for 37 years as a basic grade lecturer and retired on just under half salary - around £10,000. With no NI, the higher tax allowance and the state pension he actually clears more than if he were still working. (Unfortunately we still have the mortgage, but that's a separate issue!)

bigheadxx

Sir_Humphrey wrote: »

LOL. How stable do you think the country would be without the rule of law? Do you think the government would stop at accrued pension rights if it just decided it could ignore the rule of law just when it became inconvenient?



With respect, the govt is in effect borrowing 80% of gross income at 1-2%, whereas even a sensible mortgage is 350% of gross income at 6%. And the government has an indefinite amount of time to make the repayments. All this makes that a completely false analogy.

I think you need to get a basic understanding of how these things actually work.

The rule of law is what allowed millions of days to be lost through strikes in the late 70`s, the last time we had a labour government that thought it could spend without consequence.

There are very few private conpanies that offer final salary pension schemes, and there are hundreds of thousands of people who began their careers with a firm thinking they had a generous pension to retire on, who have been disappointed because they have been told that it is no longer viable. Why should a public sector employee be treated any differently?

The government may be borrowing at 1-2% now but that is not going to last forever as we do not know what lies ahead for the UK economy.

andygb

bigheadxx wrote: »

The rule of law is what allowed millions of days to be lost through strikes in the late 70`s, the last time we had a labour government that thought it could spend without consequence.

There are very few private conpanies that offer final salary pension schemes, and there are hundreds of thousands of people who began their careers with a firm thinking they had a generous pension to retire on, who have been disappointed because they have been told that it is no longer viable. Why should a public sector employee be treated any differently?

The government may be borrowing at 1-2% now but that is not going to last forever as we do not know what lies ahead for the UK economy.

The last time we had wholesale strikes was under Maggie Thatcher's Tory government, so try as you might, you cannot lay everything at Labour's door.

bigheadxx

andygb wrote: »

The last time we had wholesale strikes was under Maggie Thatcher's Tory government, so try as you might, you cannot lay everything at Labour's door.

This is true. However Maggie Thatcher had to deal with the legacy of failure of socialism and the chronic debt run up by following socialist policies by all post war governments.

It was a labour government that introduced the legislation that allowed "wildcat" strikes and secondary picketing. As for the miners strike, that was a fight that the government of the day had to win.

Generali

bigheadxx wrote: »

This is true. However Maggie Thatcher had to deal with the legacy of failure of socialism and the chronic debt run up by following socialist policies by all post war governments.

It was a labour government that introduced the legislation that allowed "wildcat" strikes and secondary picketing. As for the miners strike, that was a fight that the government of the day had to win.

Arthur Scargill (leader of the National Union of Miners) went to the TUC after the 1987 election and proposed a National Strike with the aim of bringing down the Thatcher Government. That was the first time that I thought that socialism might be a bad idea.

Far more man days were lost to strikes in the 1970s than the 80s BTW. Check series 30 on the NSO website for details.