Council Tax help - Again Pt2

blind-as-a-bat_2

chappers wrote: »

the problem here is quite basic whilst a liability order has been made against you that just states that you are liable for the CT and is your debt and as such is a provable debt.

However council tax law states that CT is due on the property still as they have written the unpaid part of the debt off not the whole debt and council tax is still due whether by you or another occupant.

The liability order identifies you as the person responsible for the council tax however if you had say moved from the property since the liability order the council would only be able to chase you for the tax owed up to the point you left the property.

What??????

i suggest you Try reading up on the insolvency act, you dont work in a council tax office by any chance do you, would explain a lot:rolleyes:

fatou256

miss_spooky wrote: »

Just a quickie as I'm of out.

The bad news is that the OR still stands by their original take & have written to say that the councils have a right to do this & that they can't stop them as ct is a yearly debt but worked out daily (in a rush so can't think of right wording but YKWIM)

They said in letter rec'd today that I haven't a justifiable case against the council as my liability hearing was after my br date.

Part of me is thinking to write with councils response and see if they shift, maily to help others but part of me is thinking of leaving it - let sleeping dogs lie?

if i were you leave it ....

miss_spooky

I think you're right, I'll leave it.

I've made enquiries to vol for the CAB in our area. I've got to go back when my youngest starts Nursery in Jan so I will have a bit of time for training etc.

So that's a fight that can wait for the time being...

Many thanks to you all.x

fatou256

miss_spooky wrote: »

I think you're right, I'll leave it.

I've made enquiries to vol for the CAB in our area. I've got to go back when my youngest starts Nursery in Jan so I will have a bit of time for training etc.

So that's a fight that can wait for the time being...

Many thanks to you all.x

good for you i bet the training will be interesting !

chappers

blind-as-a-bat wrote: »

What??????

i suggest you Try reading up on the insolvency act, you dont work in a council tax office by any chance do you, would explain a lot:rolleyes:

No I don't work for the CT nut after a year long battle with the LA over council tax and a liability order I do have a fair bit of knowledge of CT, liability orders and how debts are administered under them.

A liabilty order identifies a person as the one responsible for the debt and under the council tax it states that if you miss two installments you lose your right to pay by installments. The CT then obtain a liability order for the full amount of council tax.

However a potentially future debt cannot be claimed for as in the future you may not actually be liable for that debt.(for example you might move) Therefore if you pay your council tax upto date the council cannot take action to recover the council tax for future months, but the liability order will remain in place and can be invoked should you fail to keep your council tax upto date.

CIS

A liabilty order identifies a person as the one responsible for the debt and under the council tax it states that if you miss two installments you lose your right to pay by installments. The CT then obtain a liability order for the full amount of council tax.

It depends , you can lose the right to instalments after missing 1, 2 or 3 instalments depending on whether you pay the reminders within 7 days and retain the right to pay by instalments after the first 2 missed payments.

However a potentially future debt cannot be claimed for as in the future you may not actually be liable for that debt.(for example you might move) Therefore if you pay your council tax upto date the council cannot take action to recover the council tax for future months, but the liability order will remain in place and can be invoked should you fail to keep your council tax upto date.

That's incorrect (I work in council tax recovery)- once the L/O is granted the balance outstanding for the remainder of the year at that point becomes due and we can and do take action to recover the full balance due - if it them becomes obvious at a later date that your have a Council tax liability for less than the full year (e.g you move out) then the amount recoverable is limited to the figure.

debt_doctor

CIS wrote: »

It depends , you can lose the right to instalments after missing 1, 2 or 3 instalments depending on whether you pay the reminders within 7 days and retain the right to pay by instalments after the first 2 missed payments.

That's incorrect (I work in council tax recovery)- once the L/O is granted the balance outstanding for the remainder of the year at that point becomes due and we can and do take action to recover the full balance due - if it them becomes obvious at a later date that your have a Council tax liability for less than the full year (e.g you move out) then the amount recoverable is limited to the figure.

Thank you ! - like most of those I speak to in our local c/tax recoveries team, a balanced and legally correct view.

DD

chappers

CIS wrote: »

That's incorrect (I work in council tax recovery)- once the L/O is granted the balance outstanding for the remainder of the year at that point becomes due and we can and do take action to recover the full balance due - if it them becomes obvious at a later date that your have a Council tax liability for less than the full year (e.g you move out) then the amount recoverable is limited to the figure.

that may be how it is laid down in the CT law but not how it works in court., a couple of years ago I had a liability order made against me and before any bailiffs came I settled my account upto date, subsequently a bailiff made two visits to me and to cut a long story short claimed that I owed them £42.50 (their fees) which was still collectable under the liability order. Foolishly a couple of months later I missed a couple of payments and the council wrote to me saying they were going to re-invoke the liability order, again I got my account up to date and again after this a bailiff made his calls and claimed a further set of fees.
Fast forward nearly a year and the baliffs took me to court for their two lots of fees.
I defended the case and in court they originally claimed that their fees were for their visits after the liability order was issued, but my evidence showed that at the time of their first visit my account was up to date. They then tried to change their argument saying that when they visited they were trying to collect the remainder outstanding under the liability order.
The judge dismissed their claim saying they couldn't make visits to claim for a debt which had not yet occured.

debt_doctor

I am pleased for you that the judge ruled in your favour, however, as all the caselaw, insolvency law and council tax regulations show, he was wrong to do so.

District judges make errors of law on a regular basis. They are however bound by the case law such as R mohammed v Newark LBC 2009 and others as mentioned earlier in this thread.

DD