Council Tax help - Again Pt2

miss_spooky

I'm going to see what they say when they ring back. Can't believe I can't find the post that had the Council Tax Regulations bit about BR. I've got a headache from searching.

If I have to pay it then I will see if they can spread it over next year as well.

I'll wait & see what DD says if he's around later. Some of his posts say that they have to by law to include it? But then the Council can still argue that they have the right to issue a new bill with new acct number...

tigerfeet2006

Here we go


40.101 Council Tax
Each District Borough Council levies and collects a tax, called a council tax which is payable in respect of dwellings in its area. The occupiers of the dwellings have joint and several liability for council tax.
Council tax is charged on a yearly basis from 1 April each year URL="http://www.insolvency.gov.uk/freedomofinformation/technical/TechnicalManual/Ch37-48/chapter40/part6/Notes/Notes.htm#3"]Note 3[/URL but the liability to pay council tax is determined on a daily basis URL="http://www.insolvency.gov.uk/freedomofinformation/technical/TechnicalManual/Ch37-48/chapter40/part6/Notes/Notes.htm#4"]Note 4[/URL. The billing authority is required to make a demand for payment of the council tax separate to the notification of the amount of council tax and the tax becomes due when that demand is made but most council tax payers agree a statutory monthly payment scheme for payment of council tax URL="http://www.insolvency.gov.uk/freedomofinformation/technical/TechnicalManual/Ch37-48/chapter40/part6/Notes/Notes.htm#5"]Note 5[/URL.
Any amount due and unpaid under the instalment agreement prior to the insolvency order is an unsecured debt in the proceedings URL="http://www.insolvency.gov.uk/freedomofinformation/technical/TechnicalManual/Ch37-48/chapter40/part6/Notes/Notes.htm#6"]Note 6[/URL. If the bankrupt's council tax is up to date under the instalment agreement at the date of the bankruptcy order, no amount is provable in the bankruptcy as it relates to future occupation of the dwelling. Where a liability order has been obtained by the council, prior to the bankruptcy order being made the whole debt as notified within the liability order becomes due and it is therefore a provable debt as defined in paragraph 40.12.

miss_spooky

Thanks for that, there is another one lying around that is quoted from the Council Tax Regulations Act 1984(?) Section 49 I think it is, I quoted it but couldn'y find it.

Council say that law overrides the IS Tech Manual and IS say that Council can do what they like?

It beggars belief. Doesn't it.

How are you feeling?

miss_spooky

Found it!!
Put a search in google:

Section 49 (1) of the The Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992 states that:


“Where a liability order has been made and the debtor against whom it was made is an individual, the amount due shall be deemed to be a debt for the purposes of section 267 of the Insolvency Act 1986 (grounds of creditor's petition)”


Section 49(3) also states that:

“For the purposes of this regulation the amount due is an amount equal to any outstanding sum which is or forms part of the amount in respect of which the liability order was made”

fatou256

hi miss spooky i hate this council with a passion too i have the same issue but now it is with the local government ombudsman . however this is what insolvevency says abotu council tax
33.194B – Council Tax (amended November 2008)
Council Tax is a local tax set by local councils to help pay for local services URL="http://www.insolvency.gov.uk/freedomofinformation/technical/TechnicalManual/Ch25-36/Chapter33/part8/Part%208%20notes.htm#12"]Note 12[/URL. There is one council tax bill for each dwelling, whether it is a house, bungalow, flat maisonette, mobile home or houseboat, and whether it is owned or rented. Generally speaking the occupier(s) of the property are the liable person(s) for the payment of the tax with some limited exceptions URL="http://www.insolvency.gov.uk/freedomofinformation/technical/TechnicalManual/Ch25-36/Chapter33/part8/Part%208%20notes.htm#13"]Note 13[/URL .
Council tax is charged on a yearly basis from 1 April each year URL="http://www.insolvency.gov.uk/freedomofinformation/technical/TechnicalManual/Ch25-36/Chapter33/part8/Part%208%20notes.htm#14"]Note 14[/URL but the liability to pay council tax is determined on a daily basis URL="http://www.insolvency.gov.uk/freedomofinformation/technical/TechnicalManual/Ch25-36/Chapter33/part8/Part%208%20notes.htm#15"]Note 15[/URL The billing authority is required to make a demand for payment of the council tax separate to the notification of the amount of council tax and the tax becomes due when that demand is made but most council tax payers agree a statutory monthly payment scheme for payment of council tax URL="http://www.insolvency.gov.uk/freedomofinformation/technical/TechnicalManual/Ch25-36/Chapter33/part8/Part%208%20notes.htm#16"]Note 16[/URL.
Any amount due and unpaid under the instalment agreement prior to the insolvency order is an unsecured debt in the proceedings URL="http://www.insolvency.gov.uk/freedomofinformation/technical/TechnicalManual/Ch25-36/Chapter33/part8/Part%208%20notes.htm#17"]Note 17[/URL. If the bankrupt's council tax is up to date under the instalment agreement at the date of the bankruptcy order, no amount is provable in the bankruptcy as it relates to future occupation of the dwelling. The bankrupt is liable to pay council tax after the date of the bankruptcy order. Where a liability order has been obtained by the council, prior to the bankruptcy order being made, then the whole debt as notified within the liability order becomes due and it is therefore a provable debt as defined in paragraph 40.12.

miss_spooky

Hi Fatou256,

That's what Tigerfeet2006 has posted, but my council seem to think that their book of law overrides all this. That they can write of the debt up to BR date, then open a new accout from BR date. Though I advised that this is wrong as a liability Order is up until March 2010.

My CAB agreed as they had no further info and actually said that I was a bit more clued up than them & they can only go by what they have. I even introduced them to this site.

I'll see what the council come back with, then take it from there.

tigerfeet2006

Well I hope you manage to get it sorted MS. If they don't give in and you do find yourself having to pay it back then don't be forced into paying whhat you can't afford. Are you putting money by for CT at the moment?

I'm off to the Doc's in a minute. It's a 2 mile walk so is going to tae me a while. Neighbour is going to have the boys when she gets back from her school run. I'm feeling dizzy, nauseas (sp?), headaches, muscles ache, hot and cold flushes but I don't have a temprature. At least the actual D&V have gone.

fatou256

miss_spooky wrote: »

Hi Fatou256,

That's what Tigerfeet2006 has posted, but my council seem to think that their book of law overrides all this. That they can write of the debt up to BR date, then open a new accout from BR date. Though I advised that this is wrong as a liability Order is up until March 2010.

My CAB agreed as they had no further info and actually said that I was a bit more clued up than them & they can only go by what they have. I even introduced them to this site.

I'll see what the council come back with, then take it from there.

sorry misss spooky i have more or the less the same issue with the council tax. my complaint now is been put onto the local governement ombudsmand has i am fed up of them up making rules as they suit them. i even receivd reminder notice twith the wrong sum, wrong name, wrong date etc.. ....

the point is that bankutpyc cover your liability wether they like or not . i am surprised that your OR hasn't done much about it .

this is typical bully behaviour from the council. have you contacted your local councillor ?

miss_spooky

Tigerfeet2006, good luck with doctors. I thought I had swine flu a while ago, but it turned out to be a throat infection - in hindsight was worse than SF!

Fatou256, I'll wait and see if DD comes up with anything. The Council have just phoned, I quoted all the above paragraphs, and she basically said that that the liability for me to pay it continues even after BR. So in them closing acct & reopening one is the correct way for them to get their money. Said I was to put everything down in writing to one of the senior managers and take it from there.
Have made a small arrangement to pay, they've put it over 6 mths till March instead of five so it reduces it a bit.

My OR said I was to contact the Council & see what they do as it's not up to him. The IS said pretty much to same... Council have duristiction over the IS Act.

Thank you both for your help.x

fatou256

sorry to hear that make sure you quote the law extract .... and dont forget send your letter recorded delivery they have an habit of getting lost ! good luck .