Parking Fine when loading!!

Shorrtybearr

Hi all,

Just helped my girlfriend move the other day, we rented a van moved some stuff from her old place to her new place in Haringey north London.

Basically the issue i have is that the loading time is 2 hours and was in operation at that time (roughly 11am), me and 2 other people were in the van, my girlfriend took the bus and my her friend took his moped. We all arrive at roughly the same time with the exception of her who was about a minute or so behind us, we actually saw her get off the bus as we went into the new house. We were gone not 2 minutes, i barely had enough time to get up and down the stairs (i was just unlocking the doors etc) when i came down i saw the ticket being issued!

Now even if (massive galactic "IF") we were over the 5 minute grace of leaving the loading vehicle unattended, my girlfriend who didn't arrive with the van was waiting with it! surely in even the stupidest traffic warden's mind this counts as attended!?

How can we prove this? the traffic warden insisted he waited for the full five minutes which is just complete rubbish, I'm sure traffic cameras or security cameras will disprove him but either way she was with the van so it's a pointless argument.

She wants to pay the fine quickly so it doesn't increase to the full £60 (now at £30) I told her to wait for a bit till I had a chance to ask on here because I read somewhere that its harder to claim back rather than void the ticket.
What do we do now? how would i go about arguing the point etc?

Thanks for reading, Take care,

SB

Coblcris

This sounds eminently winnable to me. Unless there are No Loading blips on the kerb or appropriate signage. The more details and photographs you supple they better people can advise.

TheBogsDollocks

Can you link us to the location via googlemaps? If you pay you will lose the right to appeal. Use some of the discounted days to gather intelligence on here or elsewhere.

Shorrtybearr

had a little look, there is single yellow blips but we were in the loading times so it should be fine. (no loading 8-10, 4-6:30) We were definetly inside that time limit.

I've checked the zones and rules in the area and its all fine the only thing that i can see wrong is us "apparently" going over the loading grace period. Which we didnt and had someone attending. Im going to get her to send a letter explaining the situation but i fear she'll just get fed up and pay the fine

The main problem is us proving we didnt go over the grace peroid and had someone attending the van, its basically our word against his and i cant see them taking our side to be honest. How can we back up our argument?

Thanks for the replies.

Take care,

SB

roddydogs

5 mins is actually longer than allowed on "Red Routes", which only allow 3 mins, but loading MUST be continious, not someone waiting. "Dispensations" are actually allowed for moving, but you must apply in advance, no good now, but if someone is about to move worth knowing.

Neil_B

roddydogs wrote: »

5 mins is actually longer than allowed on "Red Routes", which only allow 3 mins, but loading MUST be continious, not someone waiting. "Dispensations" are actually allowed for moving, but you must apply in advance, no good now, but if someone is about to move worth knowing.

Oh I'd love to see the relevant legislation that backs that statement up!?

I know of no difference in the law regarding loading on red routes compared to other roads.

There is no 'grace period'. You are either loading or you are not.

As for 'continuous' -- loading includes all ancillary aspects of the task at hand -- as I have pointed out here more than a few times. Unlocking doors to gain access is clearly part of the task of loading.

roddydogs

On "Red Routes" theyve used "Hand Held" computers for about 3 years now, the number is entered into the computer, and if its a loading bay, after 3 mins, the computer flags up "Penalty" (PCN) the TW (or TCPO) (Transport Community support officer) should be standing by the car to observe if loading has taken place during that time, if not he/she presses a button that prints out the ticket. It did use to be 5 mins grace, but this was reduced to 3 mins.

Neil_B

roddydogs wrote: »

On "Red Routes" theyve used "Hand Held" computers for about 3 years now, the number is entered into the computer, and if its a loading bay, after 3 mins, the computer flags up "Penalty" (PCN) the TW (or TCPO) (Transport Community support officer) should be standing by the car to observe if loading has taken place during that time, if not he/she presses a button that prints out the ticket. It did use to be 5 mins grace, but this was reduced to 3 mins.

There is no relevance and, I repeat, there is NO grace period. You are now potentially misleading people into thinking they can stop for 3/5 minutes with impunity.

You are talking about observation periods which various enforcement authorities choose to use. Again, of little relevance. If the recipient of a PCN was engaged in loading activities at the time of issue there is NO contravention.

The idea of having observed for just 3 minutes to conclude that no loading was taking place would be laughed out of the Adjudicator's office IMO. Another gross waste of public money on processing and correspondence.

roddydogs

Im talking about the "Criteria" for issuing the tickets.......the fact that a lot of those tickets may or may not be quashed by the adjudicator is immeterial.
Most people will not want to waste time fighting tickets, they will just pay them.

Shorrtybearr

Thanks guys.

Neil, I didnt think about the unlocking of doors etc would be considered part of the loading process, thanks ill be sure to argue that point.

It was actually a yellow route by the way, single blip too. There is a row of shops that are always loading just 5 feet away. They always have one guy just stand there