Unauthorised Nursery Fees

Jezbenbow

I wasn't sure where to post his so I thought here might be best.

We send our daughter to a local nursery who take fees from our bank account by direct debit on the 27th of each month.

Last month we recieved a letter from the nursery informing us that their fee's are to rise by £1 a day from the first of September 2009.

We paid last months fees at the old rate on the 27th of August but when checking my statements online I noticed a new additional fee of about £20 which was taken out on the 1st of September. This £20 when added to last months fee's added up to the new fee which we assumed we would have to start paying from the 27th September.

We have asked the nursery about the extra application for payment and they have told us that because we pay our fees 1 month in advance they were entitled to claim the additional fee of £20 to "top up" the August payment.

Firstly, how are they able to help themselves to money from our account whenever they want? I have set up a direct debit agrement for the 27th of each month but they have helped themselves to the extra money on the 1st September. Surely this is wrong?

Secondly, I have argued that their letter states that the fees go up AFTER the 1st of September and not August.

Is there anything we can do? Who is in the wrong here?

Thanks in advance.

opinions4u

Jezbenbow wrote: »

We paid last months fees at the old rate on the 27th of August but when checking my statements online I noticed a new additional fee of about £20 which was taken out on the 1st of September. This £20 when added to last months fee's added up to the new fee which we assumed we would have to start paying from the 27th September.

We have asked the nursery about the extra application for payment and they have told us that because we pay our fees 1 month in advance they were entitled to claim the additional fee of £20 to "top up" the August payment.

If you pay in advance, you wouldn't expect to pay on the 27th September. You'd expect to pay at the end of August.

Firstly, how are they able to help themselves to money from our account whenever they want? I have set up a direct debit agrement for the 27th of each month but they have helped themselves to the extra money on the 1st September. Surely this is wrong?

It depends what your direct debit agreement with them says. The first DD mandate I ever signed gave permission for the firm to take out "variable amounts on variable dates". I would expect their agreement with you to say something like "on or around 27th of the month" as if the 27th fell on a weekend they couldn't collect. The £20 was collected 2 working days after the 27th, so isn't unreasonable.

Secondly, I have argued that their letter states that the fees go up AFTER the 1st of September and not August.

But if you pay in advance then the payment for the increased costs in September should go out in August.

Is there anything we can do?

Not if your agreement with them expects you to pay in advance.

Who is in the wrong here?

While not a requirement, it would have been helpful if their letter had stated exactly when the increased costs would be collected.

Jezbenbow

Thanks for the reply opinions4u. However, you are actually wrong.
You see, I have spoken to someone in the know (legally speaking) this morning.

I'm going to ask for the money to be returned and if they refuse I'll pay write out an N1 Claims Form and pay £30 to claim the money back through the courts. It's not a lot of money but I want to make a point.

The thing is, this isn't the first time we've been messed around by them and our little 'un has only been there 15 months. I have no faith in their system and I am checking our account every couple of weeks just to make sure that they aren't helping themselves to our hard earned cash.

getmore4less

Depending on the DD they probably should only take one payment.

If however you are paying in advance.

The Sept payment will just collect the money anyway so 2 lots of increase for that payment if you claim it back

You are going to a lot of bother to delay the payment of that £20 by one month.

tell them you want to pay by SO so you have control

Or it may be time to look for new nusery.

opinions4u

Jezbenbow wrote: »

Thanks for the reply opinions4u. However, you are actually wrong.
You see, I have spoken to someone in the know (legally speaking) this morning.

I assume they've read the legal details of your agreement with the nursery.

I'm going to ask for the money to be returned and if they refuse I'll pay write out an N1 Claims Form and pay £30 to claim the money back through the courts. It's not a lot of money but I want to make a point.

Don't be so bloody petty! This is a money saving site. Don't waste your £30. You'll may even lose too!

peachyprice

Jezbenbow wrote: »

Thanks for the reply opinions4u. However, you are actually wrong.
You see, I have spoken to someone in the know (legally speaking) this morning.

I'm going to ask for the money to be returned and if they refuse I'll pay write out an N1 Claims Form and pay £30 to claim the money back through the courts. It's not a lot of money but I want to make a point.

The thing is, this isn't the first time we've been messed around by them and our little 'un has only been there 15 months. I have no faith in their system and I am checking our account every couple of weeks just to make sure that they aren't helping themselves to our hard earned cash.

I do understand you're angry about them raiding your bank account, they should have handled it better and taken the correct amount on the 27th. It sounds to me like they've made a mistake in not increasing the fees so have taken the extra payment.

If you feel they've mis-used the DD facility you can ask your bank to reverse the payment under the DD guarantee scheme, there's no need to go to small claims court.

But it just means on 27th September you will be paying £20 extra for the increased fees from 1st-27th September.

dunstonh

Thanks for the reply opinions4u. However, you are actually wrong.
You see, I have spoken to someone in the know (legally speaking) this morning.

That person obviously has the advantage of being able to read your original direct debit instruction, the notification of change and the contract you have with the school. We dont. We can only go on what you say here.

However, that person is also wrong in what should be done if the direct debit agreement has been breached. You dont go to the courts, you go to your bank and claim under the indemnity scheme. It costs you nothing.

Most times you pay in advance, so if the fee increase is September then the payment at the end of August is logical. The date doesnt matter too much as there is always a variable thown in to that due to weekends and bank holidays.

If the amount taken was correct then going through all the hassle and trouble of getting money back just so you have to pay it again later is totally pointless. You also run the risk of getting on the bad side of the nursery and they may ask you to withdraw your child.

dmg24

Jezbenbow wrote: »

Thanks for the reply opinions4u. However, you are actually wrong.
You see, I have spoken to someone in the know (legally speaking) this morning.

I'm going to ask for the money to be returned and if they refuse I'll pay write out an N1 Claims Form and pay £30 to claim the money back through the courts. It's not a lot of money but I want to make a point.

The thing is, this isn't the first time we've been messed around by them and our little 'un has only been there 15 months. I have no faith in their system and I am checking our account every couple of weeks just to make sure that they aren't helping themselves to our hard earned cash.

For Lesson One in How to Get Your Child Thrown Out of a Perfectly Good Nursery, see above!

Biggles

Jezbenbow wrote: »

We paid last months fees at the old rate on the 27th of August

This is where you're going wrong. You actually paid this month's fees on 27 Aug - at the old rate.

Jezbenbow

Thanks for the replies. All appreciated (even the negative one's )

I do take everyones comments on board and as yet I havent had chance to call the nursery to complain. So I think I'll sit in a dark room for a while to think about it.

Jezbenbow

dmg24 wrote: »

For Lesson One in How to Get Your Child Thrown Out of a Perfectly Good Nursery, see above!

Depends on what you call a good nursery.

I know the staff who look after the kids are absolutley brilliant and our little girl has taken a real shine to a couple of them and talks about them a lot at home.

However, in the 15 months or so we've had 2 previous cases of duplicate amounts incorrectly taken from our account (ie - the money taken twice on the same day).
If we hadn't spotted the errors in our bank statements at the time and pointed out these mistakes we would have been out of pocket by a few hundred quid. Okay, they immediately accepted that they had made an error and apologised but this shouldn't happen - It happened twice in the space of 5 months.
We aren't made of money and our total monthly nursery fees are a lot more than what we pay currently on the mortgage each month.

The nursery itself is actually struggling a little bit at the moment as far as we can tell. It isn't the cheapest in the area and a lot of parents have already taken their kids out because of job losses or because they are short of money.
There used to be about 12 kids in the toddler room. Now there is only 7.