Defrauded with proof but bank won't help

Moggles_2

... Lloydstsb, after they messed around for a couple of months, sending me what I could only describe as a sales pitch for the fraudsters. Have today informed me that since it was a re-occurring payment there is nothing they can do and that my only recourse is to contact the company and try to get a refund.

Basically, if you give out the 16 digit number on your plastic (debit or credit card), you're trusting the payee not to set up a continuous payment authority [CPA] to withdraw more funds from your account.

Once set up, you can’t cancel a CPA. Neither can your bank or cc provider. Only the company you've agreed to pay can do this. As the customer, you will have to contact the payee directly and get them to stop it.

A reputable company should make this clear, but particular care is needed whenever you use a debit or credit card to pay for a continuous service where recurring payments (such as insurance premiums for instance) are required.

FYI, and anyone else reading this, the following companies seem rather keen on CPAs, but slow to cancel agreements:

AA subscription, AOL, McAfee, National Homestudy, Natureberry, Norton Anti virus, RAC, Sky, Virgin Media, Vistaprint

khainestar

This is also complete and utter crap. Try going to [removed to allow post] and have a look... nobody completed a form and submitted anything before telling you that.

And by the fact they misspelt "and", I'd guess this was a quick fob-off email rather than official company line.

I am guessing it is a fob off too. I used ip-lookup.net and found that the ip address they supplied as being mine (69.17.223.1) is assigned to dot.vistaprint.com. So they have given me proof that the set up was from vistaprint, and not from me.

The CPA thing seems to be to be utter rubbish. I have been told that because I set it up with them I can't cancel it. The fact I haven't set up the agreement seems to be completely overlooked.

As I see it, the information I have had from the bank and the situation I am in is this. Anyone can set up a CPA on my account, with or without my permission.
I cannot discontinue or block the payments, because I have an agreement with the other party involved, even though I don't.
Just because I have never said they can have any money is tough luck. They can have what they want.
I cannot claim back the money, due to having an agreement with them to take money from my account.
The only way to get my money back is to ask the stealing company to return what they shouldn't have taken in the first place. Pretty please.

As I see this as total crap, I am not going to let this matter drop. At this point, months after the initial contact with the bank. It has become more about stopping this idiots screwing me around than the money.

malihat

I was going to order some products from vistaprint but after reading this I've changed my mind! Thanks to the OP.

welf_man

Khainestar - do you have a pop-up blocker? And if so, is it disabled for Vistaprint?

I have ordered quite a lot of stuff from Vistaprint, and I have come across the Club Premium details before - I think you have to UNcheck a box to avoid signup. The thing that worries me is that I seem to recall it being a pop-up (though I could be wrong).

When you order something, you sometimes - not always - get some additional offers you can order at a special price within a certain period, and that's when I remember seeing the Club Premium stuff. I can't remember how it was submitted though i.e. with the additional things or separately.

If it is a pop-up that has to be unchecked and auto-submits, that's really quite naughty as it is clearly possible to "sign up" without being aware of it, depending on how your pop-up blocker actually works.

Mel.

khainestar

I do have a popup blocker and it is enabled for all sites. If a site wants to tell me something it can be in the main window. I also run Ad Blocker. Using firefox.

khainestar

Ah well I have something to update on this matter now. Lloydstsb card services have some of the worst customer services I have met, and I used to have virgin tv. I have had to go down the route of making a complaint via the ombudsman and have ha a reply from lloydstsb. Apparently I must have signed up, regardless of evidence to the contrary. Just a quote from the letter that proves it is a total fob off.

There are many ways that a subscription can be inadvertently registered, such as signing up to a linked website, clicking on terms and conditions when making a purchase or by not taking an opt out option. In these examples, agreement has often been given without a customer fully realising.

So it seems that they are perfectly ok with people being duped into signing up for something that they don't know that they are signing up for. The letter continues basically saying "not our problem pal". Then so that they can keep my custom, more chance of me learning to fly and colonising Mars, I have been given a £15 goodwill gesture. The gesture I would like to make to them involve hand movements so won't appear in text.

Is there any laws or legal statements I can quote back to them that clearly states that signing up without realising is a con?

TFD_2

khainestar wrote: »

Is there any laws or legal statements I can quote back to them that clearly states that signing up without realising is a con?

It's a tricky one, as if you didn't un-tick a box and read what was said on the screen, then you did sign up, and the bank are correct.

khainestar

One thing about the un-tick thing. There is nothing to untick. The best explanation I have heard is that it offers a subscription in a popup window, if you have a popup blocker it just goes ahead and signs you up.

To me this is an unbelievable rip off.

izools

Surely if the opt out is in a popup window that was blocked (use this line with Lloyds TSB even if it's a bit of a fib); then there would have been no way to establish that a signup was happening or any way to opt out, despite how diligent one was during checkout...?

khainestar

aaaand a further update. Lloydstsb are fine with me being ripped off. Apparently they are perfectly happy that I got ripped off, my report wasn't in time and they gave me one months payment back so they can't see the problem.

Time to go see a layer and sue these con merchants.