Cheap tricks and complicated billing

Former_E.ON_Company_Representative:_Malc

Hi Alan

I'm really sorry you are unhappy with the way we are looking after your account. You raise a number of points which I will try and answer in the order you detailed them if I may?

It sounds as though your Direct Debit was set too low and was not covering the amount of energy you were using. Hence the debt.

Direct Debits are reviewed after each quarterly bill. If the amount needs adjusting you will be advised at least 10 days in advance. This will give you time to contact us if you disagree with the revised amount.

How long has the debt been building? If it has been building up over a long period and we have not told you, we will be happy to set up a payment arrangement to help with this. We will spread the debt over a similar period to that taken to notify you.

I would suggest giving us a call and asking for your account to be reviewed.

We have a number of tariffs with different expiry dates. However, your tariff will not be changed without telling you in advance. Again, this is so you have time to talk to us about possible alternatives.

If you don't contact us your account will automatically be put on to the nearest similar product. If nothing similar is available at the time then the account will put on to standard rates. Again, letters are sent out letting you know of the change.

What tariff were you on before the change and what did we change you to?

There are very few tariffs where Tesco points are not given. These tariffs tend to be very specialised and you would need to agree to go on to this type of product if, indeed, you were eligible.

Discounts are given for things like prompt payment, paying with a Fixed Direct Debit and managing your account online. So customers can see how the discount structure is made up we itemise each particular part.

However, when billing, the discount is taken off in one amount.

Most of out tariffs do not have Standing Charges. Instead, charges are based on two tiers - primary and secondary. Depending on the product, the first number of units will be charged at a set amount per quarter (primary) with the rest at a lower rate (secondary).

For instance, most of our electricity tariffs charge the first 225 kWh used per quarter at the primary rate with the balance at the secondary rate.

An alternative way of billing is by the use of Standing Charges. This charges a daily rate regardless of whether or not energy is used. All the kWh of energy used is then charged at one rate.

We have tried to set the rates so there is relatively little difference between the amount paid in Standing Charges and that by primary rates over a full quarter.

The only credit tariff currently available with a Standing Charge is Save Online. This is as a direct result of customer demand. A number of our customers asked for this option so we were happy to oblige.

The above is based on a single rate meter. There is also an Economy 7 option which charges electricity used at night at a lower rate. I have not gone into detail about this as you did not mention it in your post. Happy to provide further info if required.

Energy Online is our basic online product. Customers already on an online tariff with an end date will automatically be transferred to this if they do not contact us when their existing plan runs out. Letters are sent before the existing products end advising this. Energy Online is not available through the website.

Tesco Clubcard points are available with this product.

The Save Online and Fixonline 3 plans are particular offers with limited availability. They both have end dates as they are not ongoing tariffs.

Must admit to being a bit baffled by your comments about Fixonline 3 being more expensive than Save Online.

I have just re-checked the unit prices in each region and both tariffs are the same. However, in all regions the discount for Fixonline 3 is higher than Save Online. Please let me know if I have missed something but I definitely make Fixonline 3 the cheaper product.

All our Price Protection/Capped products have prices with a premium above standard rates. However, we guarantee not to increase these prices before the end of the agreement. If prices do go up like last year people on these tariffs will benefit.

These products are not for everyone but many of our customers want price stability over a set period. Energy Saver 9 is this type of product.

The Go Green product matches a customer's electricity usage with electricity generated from 100% renewable sources like wind farms.

With gas, a customer's usage is offset by funding sustainable projects that reduce CO2 emissions. This is often in developing countries.

You are absolutely right about there not being enough renewable energy available to satisfy demand should everyone want Go Green. Therefore, product availability is limited.

Also, customers who opt for this product have their usage regularly reviewed and are moved to another tariff should their usage be excessive.

Go Green prices are more expensive than standard rates to reflect the extra costs of providing this type of energy.

Again, this is not for everyone but many of our customers have asked for this type of product. Go Green gives them this choice.

Energy Discount 4 is a different type of product to Energy Online. Although you are right about the prices and discounts being the same, Energy Discount 4 does not require a customer to manage their account online.

Also, customers do not have to pay by Direct Debit on Energy Saver 4 although they will lose discount by not doing so.

Energy Saver 4 is a set contract tariff with an exit fee for early cancellation whereas Energy Online is not.

The Energy Plan is basically our standard rates. The savings pack contains two energy saving light bulbs plus advice to reduce consumption. This is free.

I assume the £20 you refer to is the difference in the costs between this and Energy Online. As the unit prices are the same for both tariffs the cost difference will be the extra discount on Energy Online for managing your account online.

Again, it's horses for courses really as not everyone wants to manage their accounts online.

By online energy monitor do you mean the Energy Tracker when logging into your online account? If this is the case, the tracker is based on usage info from previous bills. So long as previous bills were based on actual meter readings and not estimates the info will be accurate.

I do take your point about using kWh rather than financial spend to base a quote on. This is something our website boffins are currently working on. Hopefully this will available in the future. I like the idea of linking this with the tracker. Not sure if this is possible but will raise it with the boffins.

Regarding the gas conversion, Cardew has given an excellent explanation which I am unable to add to. Thanks for that Cardew. :T

As I have said, certain tariffs suit some people whilst others are better for different people. It depends on individual circumstances; ie horses for courses.

I know you don't seem to like comparison sites but this is probably a good time to have a look at them. Pop your details on and see how we do. This way you can see a much fuller picture.

One thing I will mention is that we don't give discounts on the final bill when you change supplier. You may want to take this into consideration when checking out your options.

Alan, I am really sorry for the epic proportions of my reply. However, you have raised some excellent points which I feel deserve as full a response as possible. Hopefully I have achieved this but give me a shout if you need more info. Always happy to help.

Malc

arobertson1

Okay, firstly I would like to thank all forum members for their replies. I take on board the calculation for gas conversion to kwh, but I have to say this was not made particularly clear which goes back to my original arguement that bills are not clear.

Secondly, I would state that comparison websites which deliberately set direct debits low / high is wrong. If this is the case (as was pointed out to me on another post) then no wonder problems develop after the switch takes place. This practice should cease. Also, I would like to stress that although they all gave similar results I didn't actually type anything into gocompare! It automatically appeared on the screen after I had entered them in confused.com. I can only gather from this that they use the same engine under the bonnet and it wouldn't really matter which website you use.

Thirdly I would like to propose a new plan. You could call it "simplicity". The plan is simple (as you probably guessed).

1) An online account.
2) No discounts applied - what you use is what you pay.
3) No standing charges.
4) No two tiers for kwh.
5) Competitive pricing.

Now I know why you apply two tiers - it's to make sure that you recover enough cost from the customer to run the account. i.e. People with second homes still pay a reasonable amount for connection rather than nothing if they are not living there at the time. So, how about applying a minimum usage policy to be on this plan?

Bills on this plan would have the amount measured on the meter, the amount used and the cost per kwh (with a clear conversion for gas units to kwh). Much easier to follow and work out and much greater transparency which will build trust with your customers.

Now, I know what you are thinking - this will make it far too easy for the customer to compare with other providers. Well I think you have probably worked out that I am fed up switching / comparing / switching etc. So, providing it was reasonably priced and there were no more gimmick driven tricks / switching of plans etc. then I probably wouldn't care less. I have better things to do than work out utility bills. If you must then apply a fixed term with an exit penalty. Fair?

The key here is reasonable pricing. If I felt that I wasn't paying over the odds for a bill then I wouldn't feel the need to switch in the first place. The problem seems to be the price increases do not reflect wage increases! So how about saving half your admin costs by scrapping all those nonsence plans, replace them with "simplicity" and pass the admin saving on to the customer. Then you can get back to running an energy company and I won't switch? Sound reasonable?

Alan

Cardew

arobertson1 wrote: »

Secondly, I would state that comparison websites which deliberately set direct debits low / high is wrong.

This practice should cease.
Thirdly I would like to propose a new plan. You could call it "simplicity". The plan is simple (as you probably guessed).

1) An online account.
2) No discounts applied - what you use is what you pay.
3) No standing charges.
4) No two tiers for kwh.
5) Competitive pricing.

Alan

Alan,
I would like:

No war.

No famine.

Full employment.

No crime.

Spurs to win the league, cup and European cup, and Arsenal relegated.

Seems like we will both be disapointed!!

1carminestocky

Cardew wrote: »

I would like:

No war.

No famine.

Full employment.

No crime.

Plushchris

arobertson1 wrote: »

Secondly, I would state that comparison websites which deliberately set direct debits low / high is wrong.

Out of interest, which website did you use that set the direct debit for you? Everytime Ive switched using a comparison site they never quote the DD amount as thats set by the supplier?

Perelandra

arobertson1 wrote: »

The plan is simple (as you probably guessed).

1) An online account.
2) No discounts applied - what you use is what you pay.
3) No standing charges.
4) No two tiers for kwh.
5) Competitive pricing.

Ebico probably get the closest to that, so you might want to take a look at them?

And Carmine...where'd you get my picture from??

Cardew

Plushchris wrote: »

Out of interest, which website did you use that set the direct debit for you? Everytime Ive switched using a comparison site they never quote the DD amount as thats set by the supplier?

I suspect(with no evidence to support that theory) that the majority of people still phone the comparison 'sites' rather than switch on line.

Ken68

As already mentioned, Alan, EBICO is the answer. You need to factor in your comparison site cashback, anything from £30 to £100 per move.
I would be surprised if this c ashback didn't bring Ebico into play with most results.

KimYeovil

Ken68 wrote: »

As already mentioned, Alan, EBICO is the answer. You need to factor in your comparison site cashback, anything from £30 to £100 per move.
I would be surprised if this cashback didn't bring Ebico into play with most results.

What cashback? Any cashbacks disadvantage Ebico. (Hey, I'm a fan, I've even paid extra to support them, but I do not understand your post at all.)

Ken68

KimYeovil wrote: »

What cashback? Any cashbacks disadvantage Ebico. (Hey, I'm a fan, I've even paid extra to support them, but I do not understand your post at all.)

You're right Kim, as ever, but you need to keep your hair on :-))
What I mean is ,go with Ebico,after a while move to Scottish Power for £87.50 (via Quidco)
or whoever is offering the most, then move back, as soon as possible to Ebico.Do this in the summer when least loss to Ebico.