Disciplinary Hearing Help??????

McKneff

Gross negligence and estimated loss is all i could glean from the first post.

zzzLazyDaisy

Hi, I'm appalled at the way this disciplinary hearing was conducted.

They may well have shot themselves in the foot, procedurally.

However, before I comment further, please could tell us how long he has worked for this employer, as length of service is crucial to whatever rights he might have in this situation.

mrg22

He has worked there 15 years with a clean record, worked through promotions to become manager.

zzzLazyDaisy

Ok. Well in that case my suggestions are:

1. Ask for a copy of the tape AND the minutes of the meeting. Make the request in writing and keep it short and to the point. Just something like 'dear Mr Bloggs, re taped disciplinary meeting on [date], please accept this letter as my formal request for a copy of the tape recording of the meeting, together with a copy of the notes taken by Ms Blank. I look forward to receiving your prompt reply. Your etc.

2. Don't be surprised if the said tape has since been mislaid /cannot be copied /is unfortunately defective.

3. OH should sit down an make a detailed note of the meeting in as much detail as possible, while events are still fresh in his mind. He should give the first draft to the colleague who attended the meeting with him and ask him to add anything that OH has missed out, and make a note of anything he doesn't agree with. Once they have got the notes nailed as far as they can, they should both sign and date the notes as an accurate record.

4. The incident with the chair leg is part of the meeting and should be included in the minutes as should all comments made after the tape was switched off. Until OH and colleague had left the room they were entitled to be treated professionally. There is no such thing as 'off the record comments' in this situation.

5. As an aside, a taped interview is intimidating in itself and not the normal way to conduct a disciplinary meeting, and a tribunal would be quick to criticise the employer. However from what you say, its contents should help OH's case.... provided it is actually produced.

Do let us know what happens and what the employer's decision is.

Daisy

juliescot

zzzLazyDaisy wrote: »

Ok. Well in that case my suggestions are:

1. Ask for a copy of the tape AND the minutes of the meeting. Make the request in writing and keep it short and to the point. Just something like 'dear Mr Bloggs, re taped disciplinary meeting on [date], please accept this letter as my formal request for a copy of the tape recording of the meeting, together with a copy of the notes taken by Ms Blank. I look forward to receiving your prompt reply. Your etc.

2. Don't be surprised if the said tape has since been mislaid /cannot be copied /is unfortunately defective. Oh you cynic:rotfl:

3. OH should sit down an make a detailed note of the meeting in as much detail as possible, while events are still fresh in his mind. He should give the first draft to the colleague who attended the meeting with him and ask him to add anything that OH has missed out, and make a note of anything he doesn't agree with. Once they have got the notes nailed as far as they can, they should both sign and date the notes as an accurate record.

4. The incident with the chair leg is part of the meeting and should be included in the minutes as should all comments made after the tape was switched off. Until OH and colleague had left the room they were entitled to be treated professionally. There is no such thing as 'off the record comments' in this situation.

5. As an aside, a taped interview is intimidating in itself and not the normal way to conduct a disciplinary meeting, and a tribunal would be quick to criticise the employer. However from what you say, its contents should help OH's case.... provided it is actually produced.

Do let us know what happens and what the employer's decision is.

Daisy

You don't half provide some good info.

It does sound a right messy hearing.

mrg22

Thanks for that advice ZZZLazyDaisy

My OH is completely flumoxed! He had been given advice from a CAB that when they have gone through what the accusations were at the beginning of the hearing to say a short statement about his length of service, clean record, promotions etc, that it was a genuine mistake and he felt that he felt it unreasonable that it be deemed as gross negligence and obviously that he was extreamly sorry, then ask for a break in order gather himself to reflect on the accusations to respond.
However, as soon as the meeting started his boss said, 'well we all know why we are here, BOB (fictional name) what have you got to say. My Oh said this threw him a bit as he thought they were supposed to re address the issues but he said his speech and was then going to address the accusations but was stopped in his tracks by one of the boss's saying 'is that it' and then they launched into numerous questions, he felt as though he was being harrassed and in the end called a break. On returning they launched into the same issue which was asking him who should pay the predicted loss in revenue back, saying they have lost the money and does he take responsibility for the loss,
Apparently a copy of the recording and minutes are going to be sent to a soliceter for them to advise on the outcome, due to the behaviour during the hearing surley they will see that the hearing was unfair?

juliescot

mrg22 wrote: »

Thanks for that advice ZZZLazyDaisy

My OH is completely flumoxed! He had been given advice from a CAB that when they have gone through what the accusations were at the beginning of the hearing to say a short statement about his length of service, clean record, promotions etc, that it was a genuine mistake and he felt that he felt it unreasonable that it be deemed as gross negligence and obviously that he was extreamly sorry, then ask for a break in order gather himself to reflect on the accusations to respond.
However, as soon as the meeting started his boss said, 'well we all know why we are here, BOB (fictional name) what have you got to say. My Oh said this threw him a bit as he thought they were supposed to re address the issues but he said his speech and was then going to address the accusations but was stopped in his tracks by one of the boss's saying 'is that it' and then they launched into numerous questions, he felt as though he was being harrassed and in the end called a break. On returning they launched into the same issue which was asking him who should pay the predicted loss in revenue back, saying they have lost the money and does he take responsibility for the loss, Who should pay it back, during the meeting the predicted loss in sales jumped from 10,000 to 20,ooo, from the sound of it they were being completely irrational.
Apparently a copy of the recording and minutes are going to be sent to a soliceter for them to advise on the outcome, due to the behaviour during the hearing surley they will see that the hearing was unfair?

Are you saying that the employers are sending the tapes toa solicitor?

How very odd if that is the case.
At this stage the hearing is an internal matter, to be dealt with under company procedures.

Something not right at all

zzzLazyDaisy

mrg22 wrote: »

Apparently a copy of the recording and minutes are going to be sent to a soliceter for them to advise on the outcome, due to the behaviour during the hearing surley they will see that the hearing was unfair?

Yes, any solicitor worth their salt will give this employer some very firm advice. But it doesn't mean to say the employer will accept the advice. And even if they do accept the advice, there is a high risk that they will then be looking for any excuse to have your OH up for a disciplinary on some other pretext, so they can do the job properly. Sorry, I am sure that this is not what you want to hear, and I sincerely hope I am wrong.

However, let's not get ahead of ourselves. The tape has been made, so OH is entitled to a copy. Send the letter anyway - even if the request is refused, there will be documentary evidence that the request was made, which could be useful later.

Then sort out the notes of the meeting - don't rely on their minutes to be accurate. IF this eventually goes to an employment tribunal, one of the questions will be 'when were these notes compiled?'. The quicker they are written up, the more weight the tribunal will place on them (not that I'm assuming you will end up in tribunal, but it doesn't hurt to be prepared just in case).

mrg22

Thankyou very much for taking the time to reply!!!!!!!!!
I am pretty sure they want him out, there was an issue a few weeks ago where they took an unortherised deduction from his wages, he raised a grievance and they agreed that they should not have taken the money as
1. he did not have a contract (in 15 years!!!!!)
and
2. The reason why they felt they could take the money was resolved

He should have seen this coming then, A very cynical me thinks....they want him out but don't want to pay him the redundancy, they have made a few members of staff redundant recently and are going through financial difficulties, so much so that at the end of the hearing they blurted out in an emotional rage that they are bankrupt, how much truth is in this I don't know or was it mean't to make my OH feel even worse and more guilty than he already does!!!

zzzLazyDaisy

Okay, well you can't do any more tonight, and your OH could probably do with a hug..... :A

Keep posting and let's see what happens.