advice on service charges

pickle140584

yes apparently so - if the commercial is les than 25% of the floor space you can go for right to manage, if not they will assess the costs on your behalf

Grovester_2

What level of breakdown should be provided? We only get about 6 things, maintenance, communl electricity, insurance, window cleaning and admin. Should we be able to get a breakdown of each component?

pickle140584

yes i think you can get every cost

Fire_Fox

Grovester wrote: »

What level of breakdown should be provided? We only get about 6 things, maintenance, communl electricity, insurance, window cleaning and admin. Should we be able to get a breakdown of each component?

You can submit a formal request to view the invoices and access must be provided within one month. This shouldn't be required as a matter of course as you should have the accounts signed off by an accountant so the invoices should be genuine. I would query any you believe to be excessive or if you suspect you are being charged for work that isn't carried out or substandard.

I don't dispute our lift maintenance or electricity changes - just the internal maintenance and cleaning as there has been almost nothing done. That documentation which I have extracted is very enlightening - for example, we have been charged for the cleaning the windows externally monthly and internally every three months. One enormous (five story) window which is specified in the contract has not been cleaned in at least three years. :rolleyes:

If you read the LEASE website and your long lease, what you can ask for or expect as a matter of course should all become much clearer.

Fire_Fox

sunnysea83 wrote: »

You DO NOT need to have done any of the above to go to the LVT.

You can waste time getting all the above information, or you can make an lvt application now, whose directions will ask the managing agents to supply copies of all the invoices for charges etc.

Your lease is likely to just say that you have to pay your landlords fees in relation to the property etc.

As for looking at properties in the area that are simillar and seeing what they pay, without a full break down of every item of there service charge account you will NOT get a good understanding of what they are paying and its very difficult to obtain a breakdown of another block that you do not live at.

You can also request a pre-trial review which is really helpful as you go along to a meeting room near where you live and there is a chairman sitting on his (normally a solicitor) who will find out what your disputing and then go through the directions telling you what you need to do and when. You dont have to have done all the leg work before you go to the LVT.

OP - it is useful to have a breakdown of the costs for what your being charged if you can get a copy from the M.A or landlord however you DO NOT need this to go to the LVT, on the form where it asks what your disputing you just put the amount and service charge year (if you know this) and put that youve received no breakdown, the LVT will take it from there. I would contact the M.A/L.L and ask them for a copy though.

Dont worry your not wasting Leases time or the LVTs time at all by contacting them. They offer free advice for that purpose, once youve contacted lease for the first time they will give you a reference number and everytime you rings them in the future give that reference and they have a brief log of the call and your circumstances etc.

Whilst you can apply to an LVT without requesting any documentation you could be throwing hundreds of pounds down the toilet as you don't know whether you have a case. How do you know what you are disputing if you haven't even got a breakdown?

Some long leases are very specific about what is chargeable, even down to how frequently work should be completed. Others like mine make vague statements such as "repair redecorate renew ...".

It's easy to get access to breakdowns of other blocks simply by asking friends and acquaintances. I found making both detailed analyses and a brief overview very enlightening. Getting the overall annual charge from local estate agents was also helpful - revealing we are charged more than anywhere else locally for by far the lowest standard of service.

sunnysea83

Fire_Fox wrote: »

. Getting the overall annual charge from local estate agents was also helpful - revealing we are charged more than anywhere else locally for by far the lowest standard of service.

Maybe you should consider an application to the LVT, if you feel your being so over charged compared to other blocks?

The LVT doesnt require you to havea break down and every single person who makes an application to the LVT is taking a risk of wasting their time and money as you never know who the LVT will find in favour of! Every decision is different.

Maria_Wilson

All gets a bit confusing for me. I found it useful to just pick up the phone and talk to the people at the leasehold advisory service . They don't charge a thing and they speak plain English.

Fire_Fox

sunnysea83 wrote: »

Maybe you should consider an application to the LVT, if you feel your being so over charged compared to other blocks?

The LVT doesnt require you to havea break down and every single person who makes an application to the LVT is taking a risk of wasting their time and money as you never know who the LVT will find in favour of! Every decision is different.

I don't feel I am being overcharged, I know I am. I know the work we have been charged for often has not been carried out and I know the managing agents have repeatedly flouted the law. As I am the one who has the money sat in my bank account gaining interest, and leaseholders complaints have been ignored for three years I see no urgency in sorting out the problems.

We have repeatedly offered - in writing - to utilise the LEASE mediation service, RICS arbitration or LVT and repeatedly been ignored. A year ago the managing agents informed me the building was being sold, which completed in July of this year.

Now waiting to hear what the new owners (our caretaker and his partner) intend to do about the arrears. I have spoken to them both briefly and I get the impression they think I will/ should just pay up. They have indicated they wish to do all the work I think needs doing but can't until the arrears are settled, which is rubbish as they will need to formally consult and it will be charged on a separate invoice that I will pay.

I have started paying again but have no intention of clearing the disputed sum, and I have folders of letters to use as evidence. If the new owner wants to take me to an LVT they can pay for it - I can't imagine they are able to prove that their predecessors have managed the building properly, as it has been an absolute shambles for the last five years.

mitchelkitman

I do sympathise with you as I had the same problem about 15 years ago - gave the flat to the building society in the end (that's another story). Basically the building soc where the mortgage was demanded that if I didn't paythe managing agents they( the building soc) would or else the freeholder could repossess the flat (despite myself and others within the block opossing the unnecessary/grossly inflated by their mates 'repairs'. They have financial clout unfortunately, and the building soc (and siolicitors) described the managing agents as 'a reputable company' because they were a large, well-known outfit. Definitely on a loser, so I gave up. I wish you luck, do get whatever free help you can. Please look into the possibility that it may make it difficult to sell if you are in a legal dispute with the agents - In the present market it may be difficult, but I'd sell it quick and just get out. We never bought anything leasehold again, and never will! This leasehold problem makes me very angry, as it leaves those less fortuante in a very difficult position. I even asked the solicitor when I bought the flat 'what happens if the charegs rise madly' - he said it wouldn't be a prob as they 'are a reputable company'. They describedthe accounts for the service charge as 'audited' when I bought the flat - but the accounts had never been audited - I tried to get out on the grounds of misrepresentation but was told it wouldn't be worth the costs - basically the poor man can't afford to fight these people.... Good Luck

pickle140584 wrote: »

I was wondering if anyone could offer some advice on a service charge issue I have.

Basically I bought a flat almost 3 years ago and the service charge was £800 for the year which I thought was reasonable as we are in a grade 2 listed building with 3 flats and a shop. 12 months later I recieved a letter from a new managing agent who had taken over, none of us had been consulted about this, and that the charge was to increase to £1,200 per annum. Over the course of time this has now increased to £1250 per 6 months plus £25 ground rent. We paid this last payment 2 months ago and today recieved a letter for a £725 deficit payment which is demanded for payment by 1st October.

I am a first time buyer who has no clue about this kind of thing, the owners of the other 2 flats both live overseas and i am worried sick, i dont just have that kind of money to stump up and already have the flat on the market as cant afford the service charge with the increase as it is but cant sell as the service charge is putting people off

Have looked at an LVT but the paperwork is confusing and cant afford solicitors at £250 an hour

any advice much appreciated

Fire_Fox

mitchelkitman wrote: »

I do sympathise with you as I had the same problem about 15 years ago - gave the flat to the building society in the end (that's another story). Basically the building soc where the mortgage was demanded that if I didn't paythe managing agents they( the building soc) would or else the freeholder could repossess the flat (despite myself and others within the block opossing the unnecessary/grossly inflated by their mates 'repairs'. They have financial clout unfortunately, and the building soc (and siolicitors) described the managing agents as 'a reputable company' because they were a large, well-known outfit.

Definitely on a loser, so I gave up. I wish you luck, do get whatever free help you can. Please look into the possibility that it may make it difficult to sell if you are in a legal dispute with the agents - In the present market it may be difficult, but I'd sell it quick and just get out. We never bought anything leasehold again, and never will! This leasehold problem makes me very angry, as it leaves those less fortuante in a very difficult position. I even asked the solicitor when I bought the flat 'what happens if the charegs rise madly' - he said it wouldn't be a prob as they 'are a reputable company'. They described the accounts for the service charge as 'audited' when I bought the flat - but the accounts had never been audited - I tried to get out on the grounds of misrepresentation but was told it wouldn't be worth the costs - basically the poor man can't afford to fight these people.... Good Luck

If service charges are formally disputed then the arrears cannot be added to a leaseholders mortgage without the freeholder/ management company going to a Leasehold Valuation Tribunal. If they were to repossess the flat, again, an LVT and a court order is required. It is not necessary to have expensive legal representation at an LVT or indeed at any stage of a dispute, you simply need to be willing to do your own research into the legal position here:
http://www.lease-advice.org/
and of course have the balls to ignore threats of action that is not actually legal!!

I have been told by a 'reputable company' I would be subjected to legal action, to a "visit from the bailiffs" none of which have come to fruition as I have called their bluff and have a strong paper trail of complaints. Leaseholders have the right to view all sorts of documentation and to dispute charges but many do not go about it the right way. It sounds like you have either had very poor advice on how to go about challenging your service charges.