Has your bank blocked your bank charges hardship claim?

Former_MSE_Guy

Has your bank ignored your bank charges hardship claim?

[title=http://images2.moneysavingexpert.com/images/dp/wtd_underline.gif] What's the issue?[/title]

Reclaiming bank charges is on hold, while the House of Lords hears a test case about the whole issue. This means banks don't have to deal with customers reclaims. Yet if you're in finanacial hardship that doesn't apply.

While we get lots of Bank Charges Hardship successes, recently we've had a string of complaints, especially about Lloyds TSB. In a nutshell, these say that the bank didn't acknowledge the hardship exemption and simply said customers would need to wait until the end of the test case.


[title=http://images2.moneysavingexpert.com/images/dp/wtd_underline.gif]Please feedback your experiences[/title]

If your current account provider has ignored your bank charges claim, please email us so we can investigate and apply pressure on the banks.

If guilty, the banks would be breaking a key condition of the waiver that allows them to sit on complaints from the majority of consumers, other than those in hardship. See the Lloyds 'ignoring' hardship claims MSE News story for further details.

How to feedback:

• Direct to us (most important to help us tackle this).
  

  Most importantly, please include your full address, daytime telephone number, your complaint reference number (on any communication from your bank) and a brief outline of your story to [EMAIL="casestudy@moneysavingexpert.com"]casestudy@moneysavingexpert.com[/EMAIL].

• On the forum.
  
  As well as direct, feel free to post your experience in reply so other MoneySavers can benefit from the knowledge too. Though of course in that case DO NOT include any personal details.

natweststaffmember

Can I ask you to include the fact that if the bank has breached the FSA Waiver on bank charges for example, only providing statements back 6 years is a breach of 13.5 of the waiver, or if numerous people are dealing with a hardship claim then Annex 2 point 5 would apply. The issue at the moment is whether the banks will provide a central point to sending letters in, for example, sending them to the branch is a useless exercise but as yet they have not got clear central office for claims that is widely known.
Furthermore, send letters recorded delivery and not snail mail.

If you think the bank have breached the FSA waiver on bank charges email: centralwaiversteam@fsa.gov.uk
Please only use this where you believe the FSA Waiver has been breached and not if you have a claim which should go through the FOS or bank(if you have yet to contact them).

broonbottle

I went over my overdraft last month and was charged £30. I phoned Lloyds TSB to ask if they could waive this as I hadn`t went over before and I explained that if the charge stood then the same thing would most likely happen again due to my tight finances. They declined this request but offered to put me deeper in debt by giving me an expensive loan. I was disgusted to say the least. After banking with them for over 20 years i expected better. I am now considering moving my banking elsewhere...

zigzagzen

First may I ask two questions: Natwest have settled with me on a hardship claim (see posts 710 and 714 in the hardship success stories). They have, however:

1) refused to go back six years from July 27th 2007 and instead only gone back six years from my claim (January 2009)

Does this break condition 13.14?

2) Refused to pay any interest in addition to the charges.

This appears in contradiction of condition 13.15?

In addition I would add that Natwest broke the hardship waiver repeatedly. Specifically the terms regarding "clear communication" with customers and secondly the term requiring "a single point of contact" be provided (Annex 2.5).

Recognising this the bank have paid me £500 additional compensation in recognition of breaking those parts of the waiver and the stress resulting. And to avoid me going to the FSO/BO

How about the other two issues? .... refusing to go back to 27th July 2001 and refusing to pay interest. Any obligations they have not met?

ZZZ

billyburke

i will post and send details this afternoon, lloyds has acknoledged that i am in hardship but said i still need to wait for the outcome of the test case. Instead they have been hounding me to pay back my overdraft and have put me on an expensive repayment plan. Even though i have told them that I have no income whatsoever and I have to borrow money from friends to pay them back.

billyburke

put in a claim quite a long time ago for about £3000, I wrote again in May this year with my updated charges and interest calculated, I also explained why I was in hardship etc.

They wrote back saying that I need to wait for the test case, I then wrote again asking why they have disregarded the FSA ruling.

Their response was," You say in your letter that you believe you fit the financial hardship criteria as set out by the FSA waiver rules. Please be advised that we recognised this when we received your letter of complaint stating this and responded accordingly in our letter dated 5 May 2009. We have referred your details to our customer support unit who are the best people to help you.
However as explained LloydsTSB is currently involved in legal proceedings with the OFT in relation to bank charges.

The letter dated 5May 2009 that they reference above:
From what you have said in your letter, or from initial investigations we have carried out, we believe you are in financial difficulty.
We want to help our customers so we have sent a copy of your letter to our customer support unit.

Their customer support unit, just harasses you into making an agreement to pay back the overdraft, they called me on average 3 times a day until i agreed to pay £10 back a month. They asked if I could borrow £10 a month from someone to pay back every month. They said someone else is dealing with the bank charges case and that they could only arrange a repayment plan with me and not remove or pay back any charges.

I honestly feel they just treat their customers with contempt. I failed to make the £10 last month so have received a letter saying that they are going to charge me £20 per day and a £15 monthly charge this month for my overdraft which currently stands at £215.

finlay666

BillyBurke: I would suggest you contact a legal representative (Legal Aid or similar companies offer free advice providing you satisfy the criteria (wage, disability/dependents etc)) as I have a feeling if a debt is being legally disputed it doesn't have to be repaid. As you are legally disputing £3000 worth of debt the charges they are charging you could be even more unlawful

esmerellda

zigzagzen wrote: »

First may I ask two questions: Natwest have settled with me on a hardship claim (see posts 710 and 714 in the hardship success stories). They have, however:

1) refused to go back six years from July 27th 2007 and instead only gone back six years from my claim (January 2009)

Does this break condition 13.14? YES - complain to the FSA centralwaiversteam

2) Refused to pay any interest in addition to the charges.

This appears in contradiction of condition 13.15? - no it isnt, at the moment any refund is an interim payment - the compensatory amount there is for when the issues are resolved.

In addition I would add that Natwest broke the hardship waiver repeatedly. Specifically the terms regarding "clear communication" with customers and secondly the term requiring "a single point of contact" be provided (Annex 2.5).

Recognising this the bank have paid me £500 additional compensation in recognition of breaking those parts of the waiver and the stress resulting. And to avoid me going to the FSO/BO

How about the other two issues? .... refusing to go back to 27th July 2001 and refusing to pay interest. Any obligations they have not met?

ZZZ

I read your post before, well done for sticking it to them.

The refusal to go back to July 2001 is something the waivers team are looking at and if you have refusals to go back to July 2001 its a clear breach of their agreement with the FSA and you should send a complaint in, any written evidence of this would be excellent too.

esmerellda

For those of you who are being hassled to repay overdrafts that are disputed and made up of bank charges (ie your bank charge claim is most or all of the overdraft draft value) this may help.

---

Is your bank chasing you for overdraft charges / disputed debt ? Under the banking code your bank should not chase you or enforce any debt which is in a valid dispute.

If a debt (overdraft) with a bank is made up of charges which you are disputing as unfair you should inform the bank of your dispute by entering your complaint.

This is just a suggestion and you are perfectly entitled to withold any payment until the outcome of the test case if your debt is outweighed by the charges complaint. However small an amount, even £1, this may save you having to deal with defaults being placed on your credit record, debts being passed to debt collection agents and court claims against you - all of which you can fight against, however prevention is better than cure is it not?

Quote:
Dear Sir or Madam,

ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxxxxxxxx

I am writing with regards to the alleged outstanding debt owing on my account. You will be aware that I consider the debt to be in dispute as the majority/whole of this sum is made up of disputed charges and interest charged thereon.

This dispute was notified to you in a letter dated xx/xx/xxxx (copy attached) (add any other action you have taken thus far with regards your claim for charges)

In your letter dated xx/xx/xxxx you have informed me the amount outstanding on the account is £xxxx.xx . The amount I calculate you have taken in unlawful charges and interest on those charges is £xxxx.xx. In addition I am claiming from you a sum of compensatory interest equal to 8% per annum which brings the total disputed amount to £xxxx.xx .

I have no intention of reneging on any part of this account which may be legitimately incurred debt and as I understand the issues surrounding the dispute are currently pending determination in the House of Lords and with the Office of Fair Trading, as a gesture of goodwill I would like to arrange with you to keep this debt on hold until the outcome of that case. Therefore I propose that you place a hold on further charges and interest being added to the account and that you accept an interim repayment plan.

I propose I make payments to you of £xx per calendar month, the first payment is enclosed, until such time as the dispute is resolved. Once this dispute has been resolved, if in my favour, you will continue processing my complaint, and if in your favour we will review repayment arrangements for the alleged debt. To be clear I currently dispute whether this sum or any is actually owed to your company and I am simply offering a reasonable solution in the interim whilst the dispute is considered.

I would like to make you aware of The Office of Fair Trading Code of Guidance in which it states: putting pressure on debtors or third parties is considered to be oppressive This includes: Ignoring disputes about whether money is owed and refusing to freeze action if the debt is in dispute.

I therefore hope to receive your full co-operation in this matter and would like to request a written response to that effect.

Yours Sincerely



Your Name

__________________

orange_plastic

My claim against Barclays is for around £4800. I wrote to them asking for my hardship to be taken into account and they dealt with my hardship claim as a seperate 'complaint'(?!) from my claim for the reimbursement of bank charges and wrote back suggesting I look into their range of loan products. They also masnaged to involve a completely seperate claim for the reimbursement of a single bank charge with my UTCCR claim, which added extra confusion. I had to write numerous lengthy letters to several people at Barclays over a few months trying to get it all sorted out. They seemed to be quite obtuse, though I get the impression they were only acting obtuse as an obstruction.

Finally they gave me a goodwill gesture of £80 (okay, I'm not sure about the goodwill part, but it was certainly a gesture of some sort!!). I wrote back thanking them for the insult and reiterating the FSA's guidelines re. hardship and three months after the first payment they gave me another goodwill gesture of approx £1200. Obviously these would be deducted from any future payout in respect of bank charge refunds.

This appeased me for a while, but it still didn't get me out of my £1500 overdraft and a few months later I was still in hardship and starting to receive bank charges again. As the £1200 gesture was Barclay's final offer I wrote to the FSA asking them to pursue the other £3600 of my claim. I had a reply on 2nd July 2009 telling me that I would hear back from them within 2 months, which would be today.

In fact I did hear from the FSA within the two months; they wrote to me on 10th July telling me that they "will ask the bank to investigate the complaint and let them have a response as soon as it is able". I would guess the bank won't be able to respond until they get a firm kick up the backside, so I think it's probably time to give the FSA a nudge...

justinfromwork

Matthew Wolfe
XXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXX
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Useful_Bloke@hotmail.com




James Howells
Customer Service Recovery
Customer Service Recovery Centre
Charlton Place
ANDOVER
Hampshire
SP10 RE



02/09/09

Copmplaint reference 425067

Dear Mr Howells,

I now understand why your department is called ' Customer Service Recovery' ; it is because you are all Customer Service-aholics, having committed deeds which at some point have been of service to customers and your Company's culture frowns on this very much indeed.

So when I write to tell you that the Bailiffs want to take my stuff away, and may I please have my refund now, rather than after the inevitable collapse of the Banks position when the case is finalised, your employer instructs you to say "no".

Not only that, but they ensure that you say it in the most snotty, condescending and beaurocratic way possible, presumably to de-sensitise you from any human attributes such as compassion or empathy, of which they obviously strongly disapprove.

My friend ( may I call you that?). There is a better way,have faith, I will explain.
If my letters have gone to the wrong department,pass them on, get them to reply. Stop grinding out the word-processed drivel that merely requires you to insert the Customer's details. Read the Customer's letters individually and respond to them in a way that corresponds to the individual content thereof.

I have to say that I am not the only one who has noticed that your organisation in particular is worse than most of the others when it comes to dealing with hardship cases vis a vis unfair charges.Martin Lewis (moneysaving expert dot.com) has also mentioned it; I am sending him a copy of this letter as he is great friends with our next Prime Minister, your new boss in a short while, I'm told.

So come on James, let's all try and inject a bit of common sense before the lemming culture destroys us all.

All the best,



Matthew Wolfe