Be careful bulls..............

nearlynew

Really2 wrote: »

So what is hope for the best in your eyes, you show no hope in your posts?

Well my hope is for a long term sustainable economy and lower house prices.

My posts may sound pessimistic and I admit to being a bit tin foil hattish but I honestly cannot see things returning to the way they were.






(and I hope rewired thanks my post)

StevieJ

nearlynew wrote: »

As long as our debt based money system is in place, anything could happen.
.

Ah, I understand now, you are a Muslim

nearlynew

StevieJ wrote: »

Ah, I understand now, you are a Muslim

I'm not, but islam does have some very interesting things to say about money and economics in general.

In fact, fundamental christianity says more or less the same thing.


In summary.....
Debt based money systems are bad news.

StevieJ

nearlynew wrote: »

In summary.....
Debt based money systems are bad news.

So you think that people should save up to buy a house

nearlynew

StevieJ wrote: »

So you think that people should save up to buy a house

Yes.
Or build it themselves on land procured in a free and open market.

If we could ever get to that point (and it's not unachievable - but would take many years) it would be fantastic.

Cleaver

nearlynew wrote: »

In summary.....
Debt based money systems are bad news.

So... a small, well-run manufacturing business gets an order from a larger company which doubles their workload over the next 24 months. They are currently too small to fulfil the order, so they need to expand. Their bank looks at the business case and agrees to a business loan which enables them to buy new equipment, sort new supply lines and hire new staff. The small company do all of the above, fulfil the order and pay back the bank. It enabes the company to take on more big orders and operate on a larger scale in the future.

So...

• Small company and bank make money.
• More people employed and current employees more secure.
• Small company needs more stuff, so they buy this stuff from other companies, passing on the wealth.
• Tax revenues increased through extra productivity.

Where is the 'bad news' part of the 'debt-based money system' outlined above?

wigglebeena

Bank freaks during economic crisis unconnected with viable small company and refuses necessary, justifiable business loans/calls in debts, putting small firm out of business along with a number of jobs?

nearlynew

Cleaver wrote: »

.....................Where is the 'bad news' part of the 'debt-based money system' outlined above?

The fact that it is "debt based"

In the above example, the bank will not have loaned "money" that it has.
It will have created the money out of thin air and your business will have to repay not just this newly created money but also interest which has not been created.

The bank sends you out there to compete with everyone else for a slice of money that doesn't even exist. The money you do find to pay the bank is money someone else has borrowed. And so it goes on and on and on.

But there is another way.

Wealth, prosperity and growth doesn't have to mean debt

Cleaver

nearlynew wrote: »

The fact that it is "debt based"

In the above example, the bank will not have loaned "money" that it has.

Why won't it have loaned money that it has? Let's say the bank is HSBC, who have more money in deposits than they loan out. Would you be okay with it then?

nearlynew wrote: »

The bank sends you out there to compete with everyone else for a slice of money that doesn't even exist. The money you do find to pay the bank is money someone else has borrowed. And so it goes on and on and on.

Is it actually fractional-reserve banking that you oppose then, rather than debt?

Cleaver

wigglebeena wrote: »

Bank freaks during economic crisis unconnected with viable small company and refuses necessary, justifiable business loans/calls in debts, putting small firm out of business along with a number of jobs?

Or small company doesn't take loan, doesn't expand and goes out of business becuase Rival B Small Company at the end of their street did take the bank loan and the order from the larger company?

I imagine running a company is risky, I never said otherwise. The good businesses will simply manage those risks better than others.