Private Parking Industry Hits back blog discussion

Micky

Coblcris wrote: »

I would argue strongly that these are not invoices at all.
If they were the would need to be recorded on the companies books as liabilities which opens quite a few interesting avenues.

Very good!

ProfessorX

I agree wth Coblcris's general comments about the Trading Standards Offices and would add the OFT as similarly to blame. I complained to both those parties about an 'unfair contract' under the UTCCR's 2 years ago and they've still not achieved any progress to effectively deal with that complaint.

A few months ago I was given a PCN for parking too long in my local Lidl's car park. I would have thought they'd be glad of the custom. However, having challenged it I was told that the legal authority for the Parking Management Company's actions [Euro Car Parks] was a case from a 1995 High Court decision in Arthur and another (his wife) v Anker (the PMC). After reading that, I responded again challenging the relevance of any Penalty Notices in any Public/Private car park, based on the facts of that case, to which they failed to respond. Under this Code of Conduct they should have replied within 28 days but they didn't and I've had another threat from a debt collector, which I have so far ignored. Let them sue me and be damned by their own code I say.

Basically I disputed that this case provided them with any of the rights they claim they have, to issue PCN's or even clamp cars, as in that case the 'Car Park' was not intended to be for customers at all. One of the judges in that case also quoted another very old decision, which is relevant to any open car park for alleged 'customers' whether privately of publicly owned. I believe it was Smith v Baker and Sons [1891] and he stated:-

“One who has invited or assented to an act being done towards him cannot, when he suffers from it, complain of it as a wrong.”

and this must apply to any 'alleged' claims of trespass in any 'car park' where you are 'invited to park' (whether by paying or for any 'free' period) but are then penalised unfairly by terms which simply don't measure up to the UTCCR's let alone any measure of 'fairness or proportionality' due under Human Rights.

They also have to prove that you were 'causing damage on the land', which is highly unlikely if your simply parked in a car park designed to take vehicles used on a public highway. Unless you have a tank with a 'road fund licence'/ tax disc, which might cause damage.

The whole situation is ludicrous as under Human Rights we motorists have the right to 'enjoy' the use of our property (which even Europe agrees includes our money); freedom of movement; as well as the right to a public; fair and impartial hearing in the matter of any Civil claims against us, so there actions violate those rights too. See also Article 17 of the European Convention or Article 30 of the Universal Declaration on Human Rights for wording to prove that all States; Groups and Individuals are bound to respect those rights contrary to what the useless Human Rights Act of 1998 says.

So I say challenge your MP to stand up for all your human rights due since 1948 under the Universal Declaration, otherwise they will give in to lobbying of greedy companies whose sole interest is to fleece anyone they can for money. They might even get a directorship fee for doing it too. Power to the people!!

O_Miserly_one

Yes, quite right, Micky. But perhaps we should add "think - don't shop there again".

Most stores are chains these days anyway, so it's not difficult to find another where the parking is favourable. If we all did that, these stores would very quickly "remember" who employed the parking company and hopefully sack them! My daughter, an equestrian, suggested starting a horse-drawn bus service to take people to these sites.

It would be a pleasure to see what action they would take where there is no registration mark to request registered keeper details from the DVLA and probably no wheel clamp large enough for a four foot diameter wheel. Any attempt to move it would be dangerous without training and almost certainly if they managed to immobilise it somehow, they would be exposing themselves to complete ridicule in the press and a large heap of manure to clear up afterwards!
Ah well, I can dream...........;)

Micky

ProfessorX wrote: »

I agree wth Coblcris's general comments about the Trading Standards Offices and would add the OFT as similarly to blame. I complained to both those parties about an 'unfair contract' under the UTCCR's 2 years ago and they've still not achieved any progress to effectively deal with that complaint.

A few months ago I was given a PCN for parking too long in my local Lidl's car park. I would have thought they'd be glad of the custom. However, having challenged it I was told that the legal authority for the Parking Management Company's actions [Euro Car Parks] was a case from a 1995 High Court decision in Arthur and another (his wife) v Anker (the PMC). After reading that, I responded again challenging the relevance of any Penalty Notices in any Public/Private car park, based on the facts of that case, to which they failed to respond. Under this Code of Conduct they should have replied within 28 days but they didn't and I've had another threat from a debt collector, which I have so far ignored. Let them sue me and be damned by their own code I say.

Basically I disputed that this case provided them with any of the rights they claim they have, to issue PCN's or even clamp cars, as in that case the 'Car Park' was not intended to be for customers at all. One of the judges in that case also quoted another very old decision, which is relevant to any open car park for alleged 'customers' whether privately of publicly owned. I believe it was Smith v Baker and Sons [1891] and he stated:-

“One who has invited or assented to an act being done towards him cannot, when he suffers from it, complain of it as a wrong.”

and this must apply to any 'alleged' claims of trespass in any 'car park' where you are 'invited to park' (whether by paying or for any 'free' period) but are then penalised unfairly by terms which simply don't measure up to the UTCCR's let alone any measure of 'fairness or proportionality' due under Human Rights.

They also have to prove that you were 'causing damage on the land', which is highly unlikely if your simply parked in a car park designed to take vehicles used on a public highway. Unless you have a tank with a 'road fund licence'/ tax disc, which might cause damage.

The whole situation is ludicrous as under Human Rights we motorists have the right to 'enjoy' the use of our property (which even Europe agrees includes our money); freedom of movement; as well as the right to a public; fair and impartial hearing in the matter of any Civil claims against us, so there actions violate those rights too. See also Article 17 of the European Convention or Article 30 of the Universal Declaration on Human Rights for wording to prove that all States; Groups and Individuals are bound to respect those rights contrary to what the useless Human Rights Act of 1998 says.

So I say challenge your MP to stand up for all your human rights due since 1948 under the Universal Declaration, otherwise they will give in to lobbying of greedy companies whose sole interest is to fleece anyone they can for money. They might even get a directorship fee for doing it too. Power to the people!!

Doesn't sound like a PCN. Rule number 1: don't pay unsolicited invoices (which might be notices, not invoices) without visiting Pepipoo. Other websites offering advice are available, but probably best to avoid CAG (bet this gets moderated!)

bmw318iman

Working for an IT company in Warrington one day, I paid £14 plus to park all day in a shopping centre car park, as it was within easy carrying distance from a chemist I was fitting pc's in. I returned to buy yet another ticket, for the evening work, with ten minutes to spare. The machine was no longer taking £1 or 50p coins. I tried the alternative phone a ticket system, but, as with many it would not recognise the code on the machine. A warden started to write a ticket for the company van parked in a bay. I got his attention and discussed the situation and alternatives, he sounded quite helpful. He suggested we (4 in all) parkers should go to the local shops fishing for acceptable coins, (£7 worth of 20p's). He would allow us 30 minutes to track them down.
On returning 15 minutes later, he had written tickets for all 4 of us.
Nice people!

craigbass

savemoney wrote: »

Is there a prize

Let me see

Put a door/window in obvious places

Put some form of barrier like a gate, bollard etc

Where's my prize

Just to be clear to people as they might have missed the first few threads. I work at a innercity Hotel. we want the hotel guests to park in our free carpark, not the shoppers who do not want to pay in the pay and display nearby.

If we use the same thought process as you have used here. in my house the way i let the people i want in is with a key.

HOW IN GODS NAME can i give the key to the bollard or gate to hotel guests and restaurant guests. I would either need to send it to them in advance, or have them walk into the hotel to get it or have someone there to open it for them.

Would YOU pay £100+ for a hotel room or £50+ per person for a meal and have to walk into a hotel to get the number??

also putting the barrier in costs money. why should we do this??????????????

this system we now have works. people know they should not park. people do not park there now. people who were fined knew that they were going to be fined and they ran the risk.

Also using the same thing. what would you do if on your driveway at your house someone parked. this meant that you could not. they only place you could park is 5/7 min walk away.
What would you do?
would you let them? (probally no)
would you ask them not to? (we did this for 2 1/2 years)
would you then out of frustration clamp them for a few weeks then when they stopped doing it, park there your self?

please can someone tell me what they would do

PLEASE???

I-LOV-MONEY

craigbass wrote: »

this system we now have works. people know they should not park. people do not park there now. people who were fined knew that they were going to be fined and they ran the risk.

So what is your problem

craigbass

I-LOV-MONEY wrote: »

So what is your problem

i have none.

My orignal point was that in some cases clamping is a good thing.

to tell people that there are two sides to everypoint.

that some(But by no means all) clamping companies are good.

that clamping is not always to make money. (but i will admitt that some places do it for this reason)

I wanted to show people that sometimes people know they should not park somewhere, but they do. this is when clamping should happen.

Craigbass

podoman

You obviously have never carted 4 boxes of heavy surgical instruments plus briefcase half a mile accross town from an expensive city centre long stay car park to a hospital so you can spend 8 hours treating patients (for which I was paid for 7hrs):-)

podoman

Perhaps if operators of these parking schemes were limted to charging no more than the fine for illgal street parking and banned altogether from towing vehicles away or clamping them ( for statutory bodies only) then perhaps common sense will prevail, the bully boy blackmailing thieves that seem to rule this business might then find it financially unrewarding and go get proper jobs whilst the more sensible members of this 'industry' can get on with business not tarred by the bully boys brush.