Visit from the Bailiff (Rossendales) - But we don't owe any money

RobertoMoir

Mrs_B wrote: »

I asked the Council if any of the letters had been signed for. (Silence). I asked if they had any proof of posting any of the letters. No they haven’t. Their response is that it is for me to take up with the Royal Mail if we are not receiving mail from them, not for them to prove they have sent it.

Actually, its one of those things. You can argue about it and achieve nothing or you can move on to profitable avenues. You should certainly take this issue up with the RM (after all, if they're losing this mail what else haven't you received... it's a bit of a co-incidence if you've only lost three bits of mail and they all happened to be related to your council tax, if you see what i mean, so either the council are talking nonsense or you're losing a lot of mail and either of those answers would worry me if it was me) but its not going to help your current situation.

Mrs_B wrote: »

I offered to pay the one month outstanding, and so bring the matter up to date – the response was that this was not now possible as they had passed the matter on. I suggested that this was possible – but we reached an empasse with their response being that it was not. Can anyone tell me which one of us is correct?

The facility to pay monthly is a conveniance they offer you and which they are perfectly entiteld to withdraw once you are in arrears. However, it's entirely possible, indeed quite common, for them to accept arrangements at any time. You just haven't spoken to anyone who feels like doing it for you yet.

Not to take their side, but imagine sitting on their side of the phone for a moment. You have a genuine problem but it sounds identical to 90% of the sob stories they hear every day. The lower level people are basically programmed to say "No" to more or less everything they hear.

Mrs_B wrote: »

I requested the name of the Revenue Protection Officer – she was not aware of anyone of that title – I have the name of the Senior Debt Recovery Officer – is that the person I need?

I'd certainly be complaining to this person in the strongest possible terms. That wouldn't be all I would do however... RAS has mentioned contacting your local councillor, and I would do this urgently. I'd telephone, and/or go and see them if they have a surgery you can get to very quickly, and ask them to look into this. This is a strategy we've advised people to use quite a lot here and for people who have genuine problems (e.g. "can't" pay rather than "won't pay", or people who have been the victim of an error such as yourselves) this has been remarkably effective.

Mrs_B wrote: »

I would be grateful for any advice now for the best things to do. OK, hands up, we are one month behind. However, everything which has happened subsequently just seems completely over the top – especially as we don’t have correspondence – and I obviously need to sort out the best way of dealing with this from this point on.

Is it worth just making an additional payment to the Council anyway?

I need to write a letter now – but would be grateful for comments on who exactly at the Council I should send this to, any particular points I should (or should not) include, and anything else anyone can advise me on.

Oh, and I made a ‘phone call rather than a visit, as the Council Offices are 30+ miles away, so a visit wasn’t possible today.

Separately. The two vehicles we own are in my name. The Council correspondence is in OH’s name. Should I display copy log book details in the windscreen? Or do anything else about this? One of the vehicles would be very very difficult to park anywhere other than at our address.

I would make sure that the ownership of these vehicles wasn't in your names if you absolutely can't park them elsewhere. Sell them for £1 to a family member you can trust with your life to sell them back for the same price when the matter is done with, and get a receipt. Or realise this is even more bother than parking them elsewhere and just do that.

Mrs_B wrote: »

Sorry, one more add in, is it worth me writing to the Bailiffs saying 'I am currently talking to the Council to resolve' or am I wasting my breath?

Complete waste of everyone's time. The bailiffs can't tell the difference between a genuine problem like yours and an excuse, and frankly don't care either way. In fact if there were vehicles on your driveway when that first letter was left I'm very surprised they were not levied on there and then.

Burlesque_Babe

Mrs_B wrote: »

I asked the Council if any of the letters had been signed for. (Silence). I asked if they had any proof of posting any of the letters. No they haven’t. Their response is that it is for me to take up with the Royal Mail if we are not receiving mail from them, not for them to prove they have sent it.

this is correct, the rules are that it is up to the resident to prove the mail has not been received. Not quite sure how anyone could ever do that, but yes, that's the rule.

Mrs_B wrote:

I offered to pay the one month outstanding, and so bring the matter up to date – the response was that this was not now possible as they had passed the matter on. I suggested that this was possible – but we reached an empasse with their response being that it was not. Can anyone tell me which one of us is correct?

They are correct. As long as their record show that they have issued the correct reminder/final notice the summons and resulting liability order are therefore issued correctly. Bringing your instalments up to date with the Council unfortunately won't reverse anything.

Mrs_B wrote:

I requested the name of the Revenue Protection Officer – she was not aware of anyone of that title – I have the name of the Senior Debt Recovery Officer – is that the person I need?

where I worked it was the Recovery Manager who was superceded by the Head of Revenues and Benefits, but start with the person you have the title of.

Mrs_B wrote:

I would be grateful for any advice now for the best things to do. OK, hands up, we are one month behind. However, everything which has happened subsequently just seems completely over the top – especially as we don’t have correspondence – and I obviously need to sort out the best way of dealing with this from this point on.

The way forward is to agree a payment plan with Rossendales. I know you haven't had the correspondence but they won't budge from the regulations regarding sent mail. Hundreds of summonses are issued each month and so sending them recorded is never going to be an option.

Mrs_B wrote:

Is it worth just making an additional payment to the Council anyway?

All this will do is reduce your liability, it won't remove the summons, or let you have monthly instalments back, the Council will probably just tell Rossendales the reduced total amount. You need to have an agreed payment plan with Rossendales.

Mrs_B wrote:

I need to write a letter now – but would be grateful for comments on who exactly at the Council I should send this to, any particular points I should (or should not) include, and anything else anyone can advise me on.

I would send to the person you have mentioned. It isn't really worth involving a councillor as correct procedure has been followed.

Mrs_B wrote:

Separately. The two vehicles we own are in my name. The Council correspondence is in OH’s name. Should I display copy log book details in the windscreen? Or do anything else about this? One of the vehicles would be very very difficult to park anywhere other than at our address.

Who is named on the bill? Cars can't be taken from anyone who isn't named on the bill, although I would guess you would be jointly and severally liable. I don't think it will come to this though as long as you make a payment arrangement with Rossendales.

Mrs_B wrote:

Sorry, one more add in, is it worth me writing to the Bailiffs saying 'I am currently talking to the Council to resolve' or am I wasting my breath?

sorry, but I don't think it would buy you much time. It could stall them for a little while, but not long. If you can get the council to take the account back, I would call that a good result - try for that.

Hope this is of some help, sorry I don't have any answers but it does seem they have followed correct procedure. If you live in a flat, or have a strangely addressed property, it might be worth raising with Royal Mail for the future.

RobertoMoir

Mrs_B wrote: »

The Council have suggested no outcome whatsoever. No offer to cancel the liability order. No offer to revert to regular payments - although that is obviously still what is budgeted to leave my account for the next however many months.

As I've said, quite prepared to put my hands up and say "we got it wrong" (by a month) and make sure it doesn't happen again in future.

I doubt the council will cancel the LO if you really are "technically" in arrears. For the future, I really would pay this debt using their preferred date and method; while it is rare for things to go wrong to the degree you've experienced problems with C'Tax not being paid at the normal time for the council are not that uncommon. God knows why but they all seem to struggle with being flexible enough to meet the different needs of the people they work for.

They can certainly call it back from the bailiffs though and cancel any fees the bailiffs have added, no problem at all. That would be the minimum I would ask for in your situation.

Ames

Whatever you do, don't leave the log book in the car, let alone on display! Then anyone walking past could steal the car and fill in the details saying you sold it to them.

Mrs_B

OK. Currently trying to take in loads of advice - which as you will all have realised has sometimes ending up disagreeing with another poster (such is life).

Am currently trying to get hold of my local Councillor - on the grounds I have nothing to lose - and they live in my village so are local enough for us to meet.

And, concerning the vehicles - I own both, the Council Tax is in my husband's name.

Mrs_B

Another partial update from me.

I spoke to my local Councillor last night. I would say that when I said that I had a problem with the Council, there was definitely a “snort” at the other end of the ‘phone.

Anyway, full details taken, she appeared to take it all seriously, I’ve been completely honest with her, and asked if she will see about asking for the Bailiffs to be called off. She has undertaken to call me this afternoon.

I have also made the “missing” payment to the Council – having made the decision that at the end of the day that gives the Council one less piece of ammunition to use against me, and even if it remains with the Bailiffs, that will just be taken off the total amount.

Worst case scenario to me at the moment seems to be that the Councillor achieves nothing, in which case I will probably be back here asking exactly how to deal with the Bailiffs.

Checked out the name of the Bailiff by the way – the letter is from “Mr + Surname” – no initials. There are three by that surname with the company – obviously one of them is not him given that it’s a female, but I have no way of knowing one way or the other whether he is one of the registered ones – but would assume that is probably the case.

Have drafted out a letter to send to the Council – but just waiting on the ‘phone call from the Councillor, as I want to make sure that anything else new/agreed on can be included.

dancingfairy

Yes - if you can get the debt called back to the council then this is going to be probably better than dealing with the bailiffs.
The liability order - they may be able to cancel it but would definitely ask nicely - it depends on if you were in arrears at the time it was issued I would guess.
Sadly the council can remove your privilidge to pay in installments so again hope they will let you.
Agree with all that's been said on the letters as well - either the council are not sending the letters out properly or there is a problem with royal mail - this needs to be sorted but probably won't help in the short term.
Hopefully you can come to some sort of arrangement with the council otherwise you will need to deal with the bailiffs and I also hope the councillor can help.
df

Mrs_B

Can only post quickly - and will update properly later - but just to say I have a 110% result!

:j:j:j

RAS

let us know.

fatpiggy

Gosh, I can't believe how awkward your council is! You have a standing order set up so obviously want to pay. My council requests payment by the 15th but I phoned them and asked if it could be at the end of the month, and no problem, they reissued the annual letter with the new dates on. As for standing order vs direct debits - when the rates were got rid of and poll tax came in, a bank employee specifically advised me not to pay by DD, but by standing order so that no-one could come along and just take what they fancied rather than what was set. It is supposed to be illegal to change the amount without notifying the payer in writing, but believe me, it goes on all the time in all sorts of areas.