Visit from the Bailiff (Rossendales) - But we don't owe any money

Burlesque_Babe

Mrs_B wrote: »

. I admit that we pay on 15th rather than the 1st – but we agreed this with the Council many many years ago. .

From my experience of working in CT recovery many, many years ago, this could be the crux of the issue.

CT instalments are due on the date of the bill - usually the 1st and any previous agreements in past years won't apply as soon as a new financial year starts.

Instalments are classed as late if they are received longer than 14 days after the due date, so in effect you could have been paying late every month (if they have the 1st as their instalment date).

This doesn't excuse their lack of paperwork - at least 1 reminder, a final notice, a summons and then notice of a liability order received.

If you can get to the council in person, please go in as it will probably be easier face to face.

Also - paying by standing order isn't a preferred payment option as it takes 2-3 days from the day you pay it to reach the payee. If you pay on the 15th it might not be with them until the 18th or 19th. Direct debit is the best way to pay.

Contacting them is the best thing to do - hope you get it sorted.

SouthCoast

Any updates?

Mrs_B

Thanks for being here for me - your support so far has been very much appreciated.

Deep breath.

I rang this morning and spoke to someone (name recorded). At the bottom of this appears to be, as suggested, the fact that we are paying on 15th not 1st of the month and are therefore classed as being one month in arrears.

Having said that the Council claims that it sent a Reminder on 12th May, Summons on 2nd June and further letter on 29th June.

I know it’s easy for me to say this, but I have known my OH for long enough to know that if he receives any sort of bill reminder – the sort that normally arrive one day after you’ve actually paid a utility bill anyway, he panics and has me check the bill has been paid, and is in a complete tizz until he knows for sure. So the concept that the Council could have sent a reminder, Summons and further letter without him taking action is just bizarre to contemplate – he just couldn’t not do anything.

Yes we have lived at the same address for many years, so no I don’t think this is the issue.

I asked the Council if any of the letters had been signed for. (Silence). I asked if they had any proof of posting any of the letters. No they haven’t. Their response is that it is for me to take up with the Royal Mail if we are not receiving mail from them, not for them to prove they have sent it.

I offered to pay the one month outstanding, and so bring the matter up to date – the response was that this was not now possible as they had passed the matter on. I suggested that this was possible – but we reached an empasse with their response being that it was not. Can anyone tell me which one of us is correct?

I requested the name of the Revenue Protection Officer – she was not aware of anyone of that title – I have the name of the Senior Debt Recovery Officer – is that the person I need?

I would be grateful for any advice now for the best things to do. OK, hands up, we are one month behind. However, everything which has happened subsequently just seems completely over the top – especially as we don’t have correspondence – and I obviously need to sort out the best way of dealing with this from this point on.

Is it worth just making an additional payment to the Council anyway?

I need to write a letter now – but would be grateful for comments on who exactly at the Council I should send this to, any particular points I should (or should not) include, and anything else anyone can advise me on.

Oh, and I made a ‘phone call rather than a visit, as the Council Offices are 30+ miles away, so a visit wasn’t possible today.

Separately. The two vehicles we own are in my name. The Council correspondence is in OH’s name. Should I display copy log book details in the windscreen? Or do anything else about this? One of the vehicles would be very very difficult to park anywhere other than at our address.

Sorry, one more add in, is it worth me writing to the Bailiffs saying 'I am currently talking to the Council to resolve' or am I wasting my breath?

dancingfairy

I don't think the council have to send them signed for - it would cost an absolute fortune as they likely send out thousands and thousands or reminders, and hundreds or summons - so the fact they have not sent them recorded basically is your word against there's I think.
Your bill is likely to be the full council tax for the year as you would have had your 'privelidge' to pay in instalments withdrawn I believe plus libaility order costs and bailiff costs etc.
Yes the senior debt recovery officer is likely to be the correct person to speak to - what are the council suggesting as an outcome? are they prepared to cancel the liability order? and revert to the regular payments?
the heart of the matter is that you are paying late and paying after even they allow for lateness so you need to sort this out with the council for the future - perhaps you can pay a month ahead rather than behind? or keep the money is your account so that it can go out on the right day (again you would need to be a month ahead for this). You obviously need to make the payment before the 15th of the month - unfortunately there is not much flexibility in the system -as you have found out.
df

dancingfairy

I would probably write to the council tax manager to be honest - I think you need to try and agree some kind of payment arrangement with them regarding the dates etc - it's good that you have paid regularly by standing order as hopefully you can persuade them you are a regular, dilligent payer who wants to pay but just has an issue with the dates rather than the fact you are trying to be difficult or not pay etc.
Hopefully you can reach some sort of agreement with them.
df
Another thought - surely they will have received the payment after the reminder so therefore the summons should not have been issued unless you had had prior warnings?
It is weird that the post has not been delivered but the council will have heard thousands of excuses in their time and unfortunately for you - I never received anything is pretty convient so even if it is true they are unlikely to believe you - as they said you do really need to take that up with the royal mail.
With regards to posting - they must have some sort of record of x thousand reminders sent with the royal mail and so many hundred summons - they must have a post book or something - o.k they can't prove they sent it to you exactly but they can say that they sent x thousand and yours was in there somewhere so you really do need to lodge some sort of complaint with the royal mail regarding that assuming the council has your correct address?
df

Mrs_B

dancingfairy wrote: »

- what are the council suggesting as an outcome? are they prepared to cancel the liability order? and revert to the regular payments?
df

The Council have suggested no outcome whatsoever. No offer to cancel the liability order. No offer to revert to regular payments - although that is obviously still what is budgeted to leave my account for the next however many months.

As I've said, quite prepared to put my hands up and say "we got it wrong" (by a month) and make sure it doesn't happen again in future.

dancingfairy

The other alternative would be to call them and try and reach an agreement with the senior debt recovery officer and then confirm in writing - it does appear to have been a problem with you paying at the wrong time of the month and the system not being able to recognise this.
The liability order costs will be about 80 ish pounds? so not sure what you can do about them - the council may perhaps agree to cancel them? the bailiffs should be cancelled as well - the council should be able to recall it form the bailiffs I would think.
df

RAS

Mrs_B wrote: »

The Council have suggested no outcome whatsoever. No offer to cancel the liability order. No offer to revert to regular payments - although that is obviously still what is budgeted to leave my account for the next however many months.

As I've said, quite prepared to put my hands up and say "we got it wrong" (by a month) and make sure it doesn't happen again in future.

Hi

Now is the time to find your local councillor and get them to demand copies of the letters sent to you.

They may well be able to put the bailiff action on hold and then reverse it if those letters are not available.

Mrs_B

RAS wrote: »

Hi

Now is the time to find your local councillor and get them to demand copies of the letters sent to you.

They may well be able to put the bailiff action on hold and then reverse it if those letters are not available.

Right. Found their details. Will ring them this evening.

Any views on letters to the Council/Bailiffs (and perhaps Royal Mail) I should send out tonight too?

Fire_Fox

I do not believe Royal Mail have lost three letters, and as you didn't pay the postage it's not for you to chase RM up. If the council cannot prove they have sent the letters then that is their problem (obviously I wouldn't be so stroppy in your shoes ...). I would definitely catch up the late month immediately and then leave you remaining SO payments as they are as it's key to your argument that you are a regular payer and continue to be so.

Herbie21 who posted earlier is an absolutely whiz with bailiffs and has template letters on her website I believe. Council I would simply state what has happened as dispassionately as possible and in brief, give dates of payments made, the name of the person who has confirmed by telephone that these have been applied to your account, and ask for the council to take the debt back from the bailiffs on the grounds that you had no knowledge of any 'debt' and have paid regularly.