Advice re repaying Pension Credit wrongly clamed by my late mother

Stefano_2

margaretclare wrote: »

For heaven's sake! I am not 'determined to contradict you'! It is no skin off my nose!


This page seems to make it quite clear: http://www.benefitsnow.co.uk/dlanotes/introduction.asp

The criteria for applying for the 2 benefits are not the same, as I was told by a Benefits Adviser at CAB.

The page you quote is indeed the current situation.

But in this case we go back some 30 years or more (when DLA was called "Mobility Allowance" I think) - she only got the AA after she was 65 when her needs became more acute (as I pointed out it was suggested to her that she could claim AA during a Home Visit).

But anyway - as pointed out by another Moneysaver - the benefit amounts are the same

AA Higher Rate = £70.35
DLA High rate care component = £70.35

and

DLA High rate mobility: £49.10

You can get a payment for care or mobility or for both - depending on your needs.

Stefano

Stefano_2

JuneBow wrote: »

Stefano, so sorry for you loss, and made worse by your position.
You say that you had a letter about the assessed income period no longer having an end date. There must have been a previous assessed income period before that. That obviously would have had an end date. It may be that the previous assessed income period started before her increase in savings, in which case you may not have to repay.

Thganks for taking the time to reply.

I have found the letter that states that" Your Assessed Income Period
continues to be awarded from 6 Oct 2003 to 15 March 2010. during this time you may not need to tell us if there is a change in your circumstances ." etc

This paragraph is on the bottom of every annual Pension Credit notification
but I did not realise the potential significance until now. So thanks to several of you for drawing my attention to this.

The last letter (April 09) is not the annual notification but a stand alone letter advising that the Assessed Income Period "no longer has an end date".

I read this as - provided her (actual) savings were correctly declaed at Oct 03 - there has been NO requirement to advise the DWP of any increase in capital?

I found a current (Jan 09) "Guide to Pension Credit for Advisors" published by the DWP (88 pages !!) - on the web- and it clearly states :

Your customer does not have to tell us about changes to their capital during the Assesssed Income Period....If their capital changes and they think they could be entitled to more PC they can ask for a recalculation....we will ask for details .....If the total is LESS than the figure we have been using the PC will go up....If the total (capital) is the same or MORE than the figure we have been using then THE PENSION CREDIT WILL STAY THE SAME.

The capitals are mine.


So I read this that during the AIP (which was still in force when she died)

a) She didn't need to telll them that her savings had increased

b) Even if she had they wouldn't have decreased her Pension Credit

Does anyone agree?

If the above is correct - the only remaining question is what happens if - say I get the bank statement for Oct 03 (I've requested it from NatWest) and it says - hypothetically £10,000 - and she had declared again hypothetically £5,000.......the whole potential claim will be for (at least) 6 years to 2003 and the Assessed Income Period becomes irrelevant?

thanks for sticking with such a long (and probably boring) post !

Stef

Oldernotwiser

JuneBow wrote: »

Newly retired is correct. The mobility component of DLA which your mum received can be paid alongside the Attendance Allowance which she also received. It is only the care component of the DLA which cannot be paid alongside AA.
Sorry if you could not understand this Margaretclare, but it is on the website, and on the leaflets. I do sympathise however, and agree that the rules can be a little difficult to understand for the elderly.
Hope that helps.

I don't really agree with this and have asked the question on the Benefits Board where it seems clear that this isn't the case.

I'm sure Margaretclare is too polite to respond to your patronising comment (highlighted above) but I think that this is a calculated insult and you should be ashamed of yourself!

margaretclare

Sorry if you could not understand this Margaretclare, but it is on the website, and on the leaflets. I do sympathise however, and agree that the rules can be a little difficult to understand for the elderly.

JuneBow could not resist making this insulting remark, which was completely unnecessary.

I have referred to the websites. I have also referred to information I have been given, from my daughter who used to be a welfare/benefits adviser with a local authority and from a Benefits Adviser at CAB. All the sources I referred to have emphasised that you cannot claim both DLA and AA at the same time. DLA can carry on after age 65 if claimed before that age, which was why my daughter urged me to claim it 'before it was too late' because the criteria are different. She herself is in receipt of DLA with the mobility component. I myself used to claim Mobility Allowance back in the 1980s but then became more mobile. Repeated hip surgery has scuppered that, however. Nevertheless, as my daughter says about herself, it is my legs that don't work, not my brain. Nor am I yet senile, so uninformed cracks about 'the elderly' are unappreciated. However, it is no more than I should have expected.

margaretclare

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

I don't really agree with this and have asked the question on the Benefits Board where it seems clear that this isn't the case.

I'm sure Margaretclare is too polite to respond to your patronising comment (highlighted above) but I think that this is a calculated insult and you should be ashamed of yourself!

Yes, of course it is, and JuneBow knows that it is, but I am not as polite as all that!

I wrote from previous experience, from reading and from what I had been told by those in the know, as I stated in my post a minute or two ago.

It appears that the lady had very complex needs and may have been in receipt of different benefits, which is where the problem seems to lie.

monkeyspanner

I think you are correct in your interpretation of the AIP and savings. We checked this with DWP a few times on behalf of my MIL and they seem to ignore changes to savings. As you say though if the original declaration was incorrect the estate may be liable for any overpayments over the whole AIP.

As Junebow says don't rush into agreeing to repay. Best of luck.

JuneBow

margaretclare wrote: »

this insulting remark, which was completely unnecessary.


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Oh, for goodness sake! Get a grip!

Stefano, you are correct in your interpretation of the letter. However, if your mother incorrectly declared her savings at the beginning, then you are back to square one really. Do you think your mum would have done this though? It is one thing to forget to tell DWP about a change in circumstances, but quite another to deliberately lie. You may be worrying over nothing. The department can go back for as long as the claim was in force if the declaration was made incorrectly.
Have they asked for the bank statements from the beginning of the claim.
Just for those who are unsure
Attendance Allowance and the Mobility component of DLA can be paid simultaneously, and is done when the entitlement to AA commences after age 65.
If care is required prior to age 65, the claimant receives the Care Component of DLA, as well as the Mobility Component of DLA, but no AA.
The reason both AA and the Mobility component of DLA can be paid simultaneously is that they are for different needs.
The Care component of DLA, and AA cannot be paid at the same time.
Stefano’s mum has clearly been receiving both DLA and AA, and it is unlikely that a computer system would accept two overlapping benefits. It is equally unlikely that the Estates Recovery Team would have not picked this up in the event that the system did accept two incompatible benefits.

Stefano_2

JuneBow

No they havn't asked for bank statements - I've just sent back the form giving the totals in her bank accout (£24K) as requested. That will obviously be the next step. I've already asked the bank in anticipation and they can provide 7 years of statements,which they are in the process of sending to me.

My mother's Pension Credit includes "Savings Credit" of £5.96 - and (it's difficult to know exactly) I suspect this equates to declared savings of about £6K.

There would appear to be no obligation to update DWP going forward from Oct 03 (the start of Pension Credit) - before that the Minimum Income Guarantee was in force (with similar savings threshold of £6K), i'm not sure what would have happened at the switchover from MIG to PC. Maybe people were automatically moved from one benefit to the other, maybe a new declaration was obtained. I don't know.
As far as I recall my mother always had a home visit when anything to do with benefit was required as she was unable to get to the relevant office.

Once I get the statements from the bank it will become clearer.

Perhaps I could learn a lesson from our political masters and simply
say that my mother had made "an accounting error" .

and expect the same degree of leniency!

Stef

JuneBow

Stefano wrote: »

JuneBow

As far as I recall my mother always had a home visit when anything to do with benefit was required as she was unable to get to the relevant office.

Stef

Well in that case, the person who did the visit had all of the information to hand when he handled the claim. They should have ensured that the form was accurate when it was submitted. They had all of the information to hand when they completed the form on your mum's behalf. She was housebound, and claiming AA. The very fact that she required a home visit to process her claim should have put the visiting officer on notice that he was equally culpable for any errors or ommissions, and as such the department should not pursue you for this money.
Try not to worry.
All the best.

anmarj

Stefano wrote: »

My mother's Pension Credit includes "Savings Credit" of £5.96 - and (it's difficult to know exactly) I suspect this equates to declared savings of about £6K.

Hi

the savings element is not soley on savings/capital, we use what is known as quailifing income which is all income and tarriff income on savings/capital and then it is looked at over the starting point (changing from year to year) and then worked out from there.

People were changed over from MIG to Pension Credit automatically when it was introduced and no declaration was declared - when the letters went out it was up to the customer to check the amount held was correct.

Yes the visiting officer saw the docuements but remember June, the lady may of forgotten to give details at the visit - it does happen

All the OP can do is see what they come back with and take it from there, it may be even the council have been told that she has savings and they then notify the department for us to look at and when the department get the info they should in theory turn around and state AIP - not relevant. I have done that before as well.