Unfair Terms and Conditions - Court Action MBNA

jos004

Takitback, have you ever had any:

1. Credit Insurance fees from MBNA
2. Finance Charges

jos004

Sorry, I meant Taktikback....

taktikback

maybe you were close the first time - I should have called myself Takitback!

1 - never had any credit insurance fees
2 - I don't recall ever having paid any interest on their credit cards (until this unfortunate event). I have had a personal loan in the past for £10k which was paid off normally over 3 years without any issues

taktikback

The wording of the claim was as follows:

"In relation to account xxxx the sum of £224.72 in interest was charged to my account when the 0% promotional rate was removed due to a default. The default ( a two day late payment) was not notified in writing when applied on 9/12/08 and was in respect of a period prior to the default. The charge is both disproportionate and punitive. A payment - total £420, was made to MBNA by way of handling charges to secure the 0% rate which was removed on the default. The payment of £420 to MBNA was made to secure this rate for the period stated. As this rate was denied to me from the date of default, I have been denied the goods I paid for, hence suffering a loss of £420 on top of the interest of £224.72 charged. Hence I am seeking £644.72 in charges to be returned to me. I have been through the MBNA complaints process and they have indicated that they are not willing to reimburse me for my loss. Hence I am regretably forced to take court action against them"

Note - the £270 interest mentioned by me previously also includes £50 odd which was applied to the next statement because it took me several working days to clear the balance. I didn't claim for this because it would complicate things.

Also, my point about not being advised in writing was because I only found out because I logged into my account. This was a week or so before the statement tuned up

Orford

Based on your POc's all MBNA have to do is show the judge their T&C's:

2c We may from time to time give you a promotional offer interest
rate.

Promotional offer interest rates and handling fees are as follows:

• For balance transfers, cheque transactions and money transfers
we will charge interest at the rate of 0.0% p.a. (a year) until your
statement date in October 2010. After that we will charge the
standard interest rate which applies to transactions of this type,
as set out in paragraph 2b. This offer only applies to transactions
made within 90 days from the account opening date.

We will charge the following handling fees on transactions made under
this promotional offer:

• Balance transfers: 2.90% (minimum £3.00)
• Cheque transactions: 2.90% (minimum £3.00)
• Money transfers: 4.00% (minimum £3.00)
• For card purchases we will charge interest at the rate of 0.0% p.a.
(a year) until your statement date in December 2009. After that
we will charge the standard interest rate which applies to
transactions of this type, as set out in paragraph 2b.

Please note that no promotional offer interest rates will apply during
any statement period in which you are over your credit limit at any time;
or at any time from the beginning of a statement period in which you
have otherwise breached this agreement. If you have breached this
agreement, the promotional offer interest rates will not apply again.

You breached their T&C's by late payment and therefore the promotional 0% rate was withddrawn.

dfh

I would be quite interested to know what happens in court.You say MBNA changed their payment date.So you may have some grounds there.But they do have the right to withdraw offers if you make a late payment.

esmerellda

The only reason the whole sorry saga occurred is because MBNA changed the payment date, prompting an adjustment by me to my standing order - but I am not arguing that as unfair in principle.

When did they change the date, was it to a earlier or later date in the month, did they inform you before hand, how much notice did they give you, and the 2 day late payment was that the first payment following mbnas change of the payment date ?

taktikback

I think the date was brought forward from the 15th to the 7th and I got about 3 weeks notice. The 2 day late payment was credited on the 9th because I didn't leave enough time for the SO to clear from a SO date of the 5th (It hit a weekend).

It was the first payment after the change.

You may be interested in the defence that I have just received from MBNA

Some excerpts:

"The claimants contentions are vague and it is difficult to respond fully"
bit harsh - I may be misguided, but I didn't consider myself vague

"The defendant [MBNA] denies that any charge it has applied to the claimants account is disproportionate and punitive" (Then a statement about T+Cs etc)
-predictable I suppose.

"The defendant denies the allegation that the handling charges it applied to the claimants account were applied to secure the promotional rate and puts the claimant to strict proof as to evidence this allegation"
-interesting response - I detect I have hit a raw nerve here

"The defendant avers that the particulars of the claim do not make sense and do not make any basis for a claim. It is for this reason that the defendant would invite the court to excercise its power to strike out this claim under the civil procedure rules CPR 3.4 as disclosing no reasonable grounds and that it an abuse of the courts process"

-roughly translated -this guy is an idiot -please kick him into touch mr judge

-not looking promising then - but I expected to be rubbished by their people, after all, it was filled in by a "Senior Legal Assistant" - looks like I have the top banana on my case....

taktikback

dfh wrote: »

I would be quite interested to know what happens in court.You say MBNA changed their payment date.So you may have some grounds there.But they do have the right to withdraw offers if you make a late payment.

I have not disputed that they are acting within their terms and conditions.

Many companies have reams of terms and conditions and it is difficult to anticipate the circumstances in which they would be applied. In 99% of cases they are for protection, and are not applied because sensible companies realise that customer relationships are important

MBNA are not such a company. It did not cost them £650 because my payment was 2 days late - that's what it cost me. It was naked opportunism to make those charges.

I happen to bank with First Direct - I have done so since the early days in 1992 - they have never been anything but fair, transparent and helpful. I would only consider leaving if they changed that behaviour - or became significantly uncompetative.

I will never use MBNA, or any of their products hidden behind respectable brands such as Virgin, again, and I will actively encourage anyone I know, not to do so.

Was that worth a £600 smash'n'grab by MBNA for a short term gain? Who knows?;)

MarkyMarkD

I still don't believe you will win, having read all of the subsequent posts.

You don't understand the basis of your own case, in my opinion.

The balance transfer fee is not a fee to entitle you to a rate of 0% for the term. The balance transfer fee is the same as is applied irrespective of the rate - it is a fee for the balance transfer service. Therefore £420 of your argument is invalid.

The argument about the interest charged is also invalid, as you failed to meet the terms of the deal.

It is, frankly, tosh to claim that the charge is in respect of 2 days' late payment and hence disproportionate. The fact is that MBNA agreed to offer you a huge discount on their standard rate of interest, in exchange for you agreeing to their terms and conditions.

To take the benefit, but then claim the Ts & Cs are unfair exchange for the benefit, is pretty silly.

The furniture example quoted earlier is very relevant. All of these 0% deals effectively say "the rate is lots%, but we'll waive the interest if you pay it off in compliance with the terms". There's nothing disproportionate about them charging the interest rate quoted, if indeed you fail to pay in accordance with the terms. Similarly with 0% deals from MBNA.