All CAR PARK penalties unjustified

MakeitgoRIGHT

I know there is a thread about claiming back and fighting car parking fines.

This is about the CAR PARKS right to charge fines.

I guess we all do but there is something about car parking fines, but in a CAR PARK I feel this is not a million miles away from the bank charges rippoffs.

Overview
There are at least two types or parking: there is the car park, which is designed to store cars and nothing else, and there are the high street parking meters, which are intended for short-stop shoppers to do their shopping and leave so others can park and shop.

My beef is with a CAR PARK.

In sensible car parks, you put your car there and get a receipt/slip; when you come back, you pay for the time the car has been in the car park. That’s fair enough.

However there is a great many unmanned car parks (well, no attendant but several enforcement-types lurking about) where you have to guess how long you will be away from your parked car and, if you mess up and return late, there is a whacking fine. That is completely unacceptable.

A Car Park is designed to store cars and rent out the spaces for cars parking there – nothing else. Whether a car is left there for 2hours or two years makes no difference to the owner of the car park, save that the bay will have been continuously rented out for two years parking rather than just 2hours. That is exactly the kind of hirer a Car Park should be looking for, rather than having un-rented-out empty bays.

So how can they justify charging a FINE for people wanting to use their services for longer periods?

It stems from the high street parking meters, presumably, which have some similarities but they are not the same at all, as discussed above. Their purpose is very different.

I feel that car parks should be prevented from issuing such fines for overstaying; they should ONLY be permitted to charge an equitable sum to cover the additional hour or whatever of additional time involved, at the regular rate. No fines, though. You come back 45mins late: "Oh, I have to pay another hour rate." That's all. No £30 ticket on the windscreen.

I think the only justification for a Car Park issuing a fine might be if a vehicle blocked a second bay when badly parking, as that would prevent the Car Park hiring our that second space.

How about a Money-Saving-Expert campaign to bring fairness to this particular Car Park robbery?

Guys_Dad

I mostly agree with you but there is one flaw in your argument.

Tesco, ASDA etc give me a "free" parking space or even a low cost one in exchange for me shopping with them. So I spend £50-£100 with them over a 2 hour period, of which, say £20-£40 is profit.

So their car parking space is generating a hidden income of £10 upwards per hour.

Now if I occupy a space for longer, thereby denying another shopper from parking who may go elsewhere, has the supermarket not lost £50-£100 income and £10-£20 profit?

I am NOT defending scammers who lurk specifically to net income in an underhand way, but just throwing a different perspective on your otherwise excellent article.

WeePat

Have recently been hit with a PCN for £150 for parking in a former superstore carpark in Ayr, the store is closed as the company went out of business. People have parked there for free since the store closed and lo and behold a wee blue sign went up telling you (in tiny writing) to phone a number with your credit card to hand to pay for your parking!! As if! Those who parked no matter what length of time were sent a PCN for £150 but if you paid it within 2 weeks it was reduced to £75. THIS COMPANY IS CALLED CIVIL ENFORCEMENT LTD acting on behalf of StarParks.
Turns out that they put up CCTV cameras (which captures your car number plate) and signage which did not have permission from the local council.
The people in Ayr are going nuts about this - contacting Trading Standards, local councillors and MSP's about it. One elderly gent is reported as saying See you in court!
What I would like to know is why are the DVLA giving out details, even of the car owner who might not have been driving anyway, does this not break the Data Protection Act, or does that not apply to the DVLA?

peter_the_piper

WeePat wrote: »

Have recently been hit with a PCN for £150 for parking in a former superstore carpark in Ayr, the store is closed as the company went out of business. People have parked there for free since the store closed and lo and behold a wee blue sign went up telling you (in tiny writing) to phone a number with your credit card to hand to pay for your parking!! As if! Those who parked no matter what length of time were sent a PCN for £150 but if you paid it within 2 weeks it was reduced to £75. THIS COMPANY IS CALLED CIVIL ENFORCEMENT LTD acting on behalf of StarParks.
Turns out that they put up CCTV cameras (which captures your car number plate) and signage which did not have permission from the local council.
The people in Ayr are going nuts about this - contacting Trading Standards, local councillors and MSP's about it. One elderly gent is reported as saying See you in court!
What I would like to know is why are the DVLA giving out details, even of the car owner who might not have been driving anyway, does this not break the Data Protection Act, or does that not apply to the DVLA?

They don't Give them away, this government allows them to sell them for a cool 6,000,000 a year. Data protection act does not come into it I'm afraid.

Coblcris

Data Protection does come into it but the DVLA shrugs off the obligation to the requestor.

trisontana

Guys_Dad wrote: »

I mostly agree with you but there is one flaw in your argument.

Tesco, ASDA etc give me a "free" parking space or even a low cost one in exchange for me shopping with them. So I spend £50-£100 with them over a 2 hour period, of which, say £20-£40 is profit.

So their car parking space is generating a hidden income of £10 upwards per hour.

Now if I occupy a space for longer, thereby denying another shopper from parking who may go elsewhere, has the supermarket not lost £50-£100 income and £10-£20 profit?

I am NOT defending scammers who lurk specifically to net income in an underhand way, but just throwing a different perspective on your otherwise excellent article.

I think that in most retail carparks it would be very, very rare for a carpark to be completely full. So with just one empty space the argument about shops losing income is irrelevant. And even if there are no free spaces, it would be very hard for the store to come up with concrete figures for any hypothetical lost income.

Guys_Dad

trisontana wrote: »

I think that in most retail carparks it would be very, very rare for a carpark to be completely full. So with just one empty space the argument about shops losing income is irrelevant. And even if there are no free spaces, it would be very hard for the store to come up with concrete figures for any hypothetical lost income.

Believe me it can happen and the whole point is that when shopping car parks are busy, it is morally wrong for people who are not using the shops to take up spaces and prevent genuine shoppers from doing their shopping. I can give one example of such a place - Bicester shopping village, particularly on a warm Sunday!. The car park there can get completely full and Bicester Village shoppers park in the Tesco car park next door. That does hurt Tesco trade.And, of course, people who want to shop at Tesco too.

I see a world of difference between such a scenario and when a small car park, out of hours, is being used simply as a scammer's income.

RobertoMoir

trisontana wrote: »

I think that in most retail carparks it would be very, very rare for a carpark to be completely full. So with just one empty space the argument about shops losing income is irrelevant.

Just one free space? Really? You've n ever trawled around a "packed to the seams" carpark and decided to go elsewhere before checking every single space in the carpark because you just couldn't be bothered? I know I have.

trisontana wrote: »

And even if there are no free spaces, it would be very hard for the store to come up with concrete figures for any hypothetical lost income.

Actually, it probably isn't difficult at all. I'm willing to bet that the large supermarkets know all kinds of information about average amount of customers per day, average spend per customer, turnover "per hour" in a store and so on.

Any "solution" needs to be fair and equitable to all parties. You might argue that the current situation isn't fair to car park users (and I'd be inclined to agree) but replacing that with "MakeitgoRIGHT"'s ideas could create a car-park abuser's charter which isn't fair either.

I'm always wary of ideas from people who define "Sensible" = "doing it my way".

MakeitgoRIGHT

Guys_Dad wrote: »

I mostly agree with you but there is one flaw in your argument.

Tesco, ASDA etc give me a "free" parking space or even a low cost one in exchange for me shopping with them. So I spend £50-£100 with them over a 2 hour period, of which, say £20-£40 is profit.

I would like to exclude the likes of Tesco and ASDA car parks, as they kind-of fit into the High Street group, who need the parking bays for genuine customers. I was thinking more of the council car parks etc that are not part of a shop; they just sit there raking it in. We have 3x car parks in our town and they rake in over £600,000 per year, including penalty fines etc.

They really have no justification to charge fines. They should reinstate the barrier system where parkers get a ticket on entry and pay on the way out, paying for what they use. ie without the need for threats of fines and clamps.