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Help needed from building control people/gas fitters
dillonthedog
Posts: 8 Forumite
Hello newbie here. I'm in a panic. I think i've got a major problem.
I bought a basement flat in a listed building to live in. It needed to be gutted as damp, dark,crap etc. Environmental health had issued notices to previous owner. As part of the do-up I needed to replace the windows and knock a wall down. Got planning, got listed at second attempt and sent in building notice with fee. Building initially didnt want wall knocked as meant open plan kitchen but verbally said would be ok if windows became means of escape. B.O. said I should change the building notice app to be a full plans app. I did this by letter and enclosed full plans, structural engineer calcs for wall, windows design,detail ,plans, materials, opening dimensions,cross-section floor/window/external etc from window making company. I hand delivered this package to the one-stop Council Offices. Never heard anything back. Did have an inspection during works, the (different) chap had a walk round, looked at the exposed padstones & steel etc, for the wall.
Flat is finished and I'm living in it. Been trying to get B.O. round to sort out completion cert. Phoned him today and got a shock. He'd been round when I was out, looked from the outside and listed loads of things wrong. He'll write a letter. The list below is what I remember :
Windows - are single glazed (listing). Have to have secondary glazing. i said but you had all th drawings, he said basically 'so what'. Is it expensive to sort this out now ? Especially since they are a means of escape ?
Gas flue - this comes out beside a walkway around the building. He said it can't ( people, H&S? ). Here I realise I made a mistake, I didn't know I needed building regs for putting in a boiler - I do ! It has a cage? Bit stuck here, I've only got one external wall, cos I'm a basement its up as high in my flat as it can go but still low on external wall. What are the regs on this ? Anyone think of a way round ?
Back window - couldnt get listed consent to block it up so blocked it on the inside only (so window still visable on the outside). B.O. says it has to have insulation ?
kitchen extractor fan - B.O. says he'll have to see it to see if it complies ?
He also said he saw the walls were being replastered and we shouldn't have done that without insulation but he ignored it - he didn't, he visited before replastering. The damp proof company went back to bare stone and put a foamy zinc? back boarding on the walls before plastering, is this ok ?
For the record, B.O. is saying they never got the full app with all the stuff that I hand delivered. He is saying the fee I paid (building notice) doesn't cover advice, multiple visits so even though the window company liased with him/provided drawings details etc the implication is he didnt have to tell them to include secondary glazing ? He just kept going on about the cost and what did I expect for £180 ??. I used proper a electrician (have cert ) and gas fitter ( waiting for cert ) and fitter didn't say anything illegal about flue. I bent over backwards to comply with all the Council depts ( planning, listed, B. Regs ) and was totally up-front and transparent. I'm going to wait for the B.O. letter, have a think, and might then have to pay for an expert in this field to try and sort it. I'm just a bit shocked right now as I thought I did everything right.
Sorry for the long post - any thoughts or advice appreciated.
I bought a basement flat in a listed building to live in. It needed to be gutted as damp, dark,crap etc. Environmental health had issued notices to previous owner. As part of the do-up I needed to replace the windows and knock a wall down. Got planning, got listed at second attempt and sent in building notice with fee. Building initially didnt want wall knocked as meant open plan kitchen but verbally said would be ok if windows became means of escape. B.O. said I should change the building notice app to be a full plans app. I did this by letter and enclosed full plans, structural engineer calcs for wall, windows design,detail ,plans, materials, opening dimensions,cross-section floor/window/external etc from window making company. I hand delivered this package to the one-stop Council Offices. Never heard anything back. Did have an inspection during works, the (different) chap had a walk round, looked at the exposed padstones & steel etc, for the wall.
Flat is finished and I'm living in it. Been trying to get B.O. round to sort out completion cert. Phoned him today and got a shock. He'd been round when I was out, looked from the outside and listed loads of things wrong. He'll write a letter. The list below is what I remember :
Windows - are single glazed (listing). Have to have secondary glazing. i said but you had all th drawings, he said basically 'so what'. Is it expensive to sort this out now ? Especially since they are a means of escape ?
Gas flue - this comes out beside a walkway around the building. He said it can't ( people, H&S? ). Here I realise I made a mistake, I didn't know I needed building regs for putting in a boiler - I do ! It has a cage? Bit stuck here, I've only got one external wall, cos I'm a basement its up as high in my flat as it can go but still low on external wall. What are the regs on this ? Anyone think of a way round ?
Back window - couldnt get listed consent to block it up so blocked it on the inside only (so window still visable on the outside). B.O. says it has to have insulation ?
kitchen extractor fan - B.O. says he'll have to see it to see if it complies ?
He also said he saw the walls were being replastered and we shouldn't have done that without insulation but he ignored it - he didn't, he visited before replastering. The damp proof company went back to bare stone and put a foamy zinc? back boarding on the walls before plastering, is this ok ?
For the record, B.O. is saying they never got the full app with all the stuff that I hand delivered. He is saying the fee I paid (building notice) doesn't cover advice, multiple visits so even though the window company liased with him/provided drawings details etc the implication is he didnt have to tell them to include secondary glazing ? He just kept going on about the cost and what did I expect for £180 ??. I used proper a electrician (have cert ) and gas fitter ( waiting for cert ) and fitter didn't say anything illegal about flue. I bent over backwards to comply with all the Council depts ( planning, listed, B. Regs ) and was totally up-front and transparent. I'm going to wait for the B.O. letter, have a think, and might then have to pay for an expert in this field to try and sort it. I'm just a bit shocked right now as I thought I did everything right.
Sorry for the long post - any thoughts or advice appreciated.
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Comments
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.B.O. said I should change the building notice app to be a full plans app. I did this by letter and enclosed full plans, structural engineer calcs for wall, windows design,detail ,plans, materials, opening dimensions,cross-section floor/window/external etc from window making company. I hand delivered this package to the one-stop Council OfficesDid have an inspection during works, the (different) chap had a walk round, looked at the exposed padstones & steel etc, for the wall.
.B.O. is saying they never got the full app with all the stuff that I hand delivered
A thought has just occured to me. I suppose I can't prove it but I've just realised they've lied about not receiving my pack and covering letter.
The inspection involved checking the concrete beam was being installed correctly. Presumerably they reviewed the calculations and were making sure what I said I was putting up was what I was putting up. In my conversation with the B.O. this morning he said the only expert advice I got, was from the structural engineer re taking down the wall & beam. The structural engineers report and calculations were in the pack !!! So they couldnt have seen/received the report unless they got the pack which included the covering letter. I know this may not be proveable but at least to me I know I'm not going mad and theres some bull* going on here.
Sorry, I'm also kind of thinking this through gradually so I'm adding things as they occur to me.0 -
The flue is the responsibility of the installer, so get them back to correct as necessary. From your description, this might be a challenge for them. I've seen plenty installed like this, but now the BC inspector is on your case I'll bet it's going to get awkward.0
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If the flue is installed in accordance with the installation instructions then it will be compliant with the relevant British standards and the GSIUR and therefore any commentary about flueing onto a public place is largely irrelevant. It should however be certified by a GSR installer who must provide the relevant certification.0
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If the flue is installed in accordance with the installation instructions then it will be compliant with the relevant British standards and the GSIUR and therefore any commentary about flueing onto a public place is largely irrelevant. It should however be certified by a GSR installer who must provide the relevant certification.
Can anyone point me toward a government/building regs weblink that says this stuff about where a flue can exit the building ie xx far from pathway, xx height from ground etc ? I'm sure my installer would have done everything correctly per instructions etc ..... we even had a jokey chat about this new Sid ?? stuff, you know the switch from Corgi to the new thing, and I said bet you're never asked to show your card, so he showed me his card. He's a proper, honest local installer, I'm sure he would have done it all per instructions.0 -
dillonthedog wrote: »Can anyone point me toward a government/building regs weblink that says this stuff about where a flue can exit the building ie xx far from pathway, xx height from ground etc ? I'm sure my installer would have done everything correctly per instructions etc ..... we even had a jokey chat about this new Sid ?? stuff, you know the switch from Corgi to the new thing, and I said bet you're never asked to show your card, so he showed me his card. He's a proper, honest local installer, I'm sure he would have done it all per instructions.
Good afternoon: Consult the boiler manufacturer's website...requirements will be listed in the installation manual. See also Part J Building Regulations. If you haven't received the Building Regs Compliance Certificate for the boiler from GSR
contact them to see if the installation has been notified.
HTH
CanuckleheadAsk to see CIPHE (Chartered Institute of Plumbing & Heating Engineering)0 -
Canucklehead wrote: »Good afternoon: Consult the boiler manufacturer's website...requirements will be listed in the installation manual. See also Part J Building Regulations If you haven't received the Building Regs Compliance Certificate for the boiler from GSR
contact them to see if the installation has been notified.
HTH
Canucklehead
Thanks Canucklehead
I've e-mailed GSR as you suggested, to see if the installation has been notified and chasing the Building Regs Compliance Certificate (which I haven't got). The installer at the time said he had to send the paperwork off so I assumed I would get it in due course.
Assuming it is all legit and in the pipeline (actually praying it is) when I get the Building Regs Compliance Certificate - is that it? I mean, if it is a certificate saying it complies with Building Regs, surely the Building Regs Officer can't say the flue is still wrong/dangerous, or can he ?0 -
dillonthedog wrote: »Assuming it is all legit and in the pipeline (actually praying it is) when I get the Building Regs Compliance Certificate - is that it? I mean, if it is a certificate saying it complies with Building Regs, surely the Building Regs Officer can't say the flue is still wrong/dangerous, or can he ?
No, not at all.
The certificate that you receive simply states what was installed and self certified by the registered installer. It legitimises the install in as much as you have a certificate for when you sell your property.
The location and positioning of flues is very strictly controlled but generally speaking you need a fair bit of clearance from the terminal to the boundary line. From your description it sounds as if you are discharging at low level to a public place. I would not think this is OK at all, but like I said you see these flues all over the place.
The good news for you is that if the installer has nobbed it up, he must put it right.0 -
No, not at all.
The certificate that you receive simply states what was installed and self certified by the registered installer. It legitimises the install in as much as you have a certificate for when you sell your property.
The location and positioning of flues is very strictly controlled but generally speaking you need a fair bit of clearance from the terminal to the boundary line. From your description it sounds as if you are discharging at low level to a public place. I would not think this is OK at all, but like I said you see these flues all over the place.
The good news for you is that if the installer has nobbed it up, he must put it right.
Ok, I got you.Thing is I don't know how the installer can put it right. Like I said its a basement flat and the outlet is high on my internal wall but low on the external wall. I reckon about 4 ft from the ground. I'm clutching at straws here, is there any way the installer can sort of trunk it upwards from the outside? I know diddley squat about all this stuff. Right now all I'm thinking is I won't get a building regs compliance cert and I might be made to take the whole thing out. Man I'm so P****d off.0 -
The installer OK's the install and it's up to him to argue the toss with the building inspector. Two people do not need to 'pass' the same install.
However, if the boiler is an 'A' rated one then it is normally possible to fit a vertical plume deflector.0 -
I'm staying with my sister for a couple of days. When I get home I'll post up the boiler model. Don't know if anyone can tell me anything based on that ? but I'd appreciate anything I can get. It's a Valiant but I can't remember what model.0
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