Cowboy surveyors

lDavid

Hi,

I have had such a hard time buying a new house I wanted to post this message, if anything to warn other people.

I have bought a house, which is generally in great condition. As it's a victorian house I got a full building survey done for peace of mind. The survey was good...inevitably a few minor repairs recommended within the next few years but nothing worth worrying about. Everything seemed fine...

Until, that is, my mortgage lender decided to use a cowboy surveyor to do the valuation. This is a well known highstreet lender who made the mistake of appointing E-Surv Chartered Surveyors, www[dot]esurv.co.uk. This company seems trust-worthy enough from their website but don't be fooled. Having paid the valuation fee straight to my mortgage lender, I unwittingly "signed up" to having this valuation done again E-surv's terms & conditions, which state that E-surv will not take legal responsibility for the content of the valuation report, even if E-surv are proved to be negligent in their survey (!). Low and behold, the valuation report came back completely exaggerated and way too harsh. As a result, my mortgage lender forced me to carry out work to the house that E-surv said was urgent and essential, before they would give me a mortgage offer.

This whole thing delayed getting my mortgage offer by 5 weeks. In the end I got quotes for this "urgent and essential" work. I had to get damp proofing experts in, ripping up floorboards and generally carrying out destructive investigations etc. They did a lot of damage to the cosmetics of the house and at the end informed me that there was nothing wrong and gave me a quote of ZERO pounds!!!!!!!! Now I am left with an untidy mess to clean up at my own expense, having paid the damp proofers 100quid for their zero-quote report.

However I am powerless to do anything as E-surv's terms&conditions protect them legally. I thought that surveyors charged a lot of money due to the risk of legal challenge anyway!!! E-surv's fees are not the cheapest by any means!!!

So I thought of warning everyone...before you pay your mortgage lender for your valuation, ask them which surveyor they will use and do further research. If they use E-surv, I advise you to ask for an alternative surveyor as this company are real cowboys. I have called E-surv to speak to a surveyor about the report. The surveyors REFUSE TO SPEAK TO YOU over the phone. They say every question needs to be in writing. They said they would take 4 days to reply to a question. I wrote to them 5 weeks ago and haven't heard anything at all. If I call, they tell me the same thing...put it in writing and they will reply. But they don't!

E-surv are absolute cowboys...do not use them. I have learned my lesson and I will definitely be checking this kind of thing when I move house or remortgage.

opinions4u

So what you're saying is that the lender's valuer detected damp in the property and they required a full investigation in to this before they would use the property as security.

The full investigstion (which is beyond the remit of the valuation, so can't be carried out by the valuer) has identified that no further damp proofing is required and has provided confirmation that no further work is required.

While inconveneient, I don't see what your problem is. Everybody seems to have done their job properly.

Low and behold, the valuation report came back completely exaggerated and way too harsh.

What did it actually say? If the valuer has detected damp he has to report on it.

benjo

lDavid wrote: »

Hi,

Low and behold, the valuation report came back completely exaggerated and way too harsh.

I would be more surprised that the first surveyor didnt find any signs of 'damp'. When I say damp, that doesnt necessarily mean rising damp or rot, it could just mean high moisture levels due to condensation but without further investigation it isnt easy to determine the exact cause of the 'high moisture' levels.

To give an example I noticed a small patch of flaking paint recently after moving into our house (built 1870), the first Damp proof company said it was rising damp and required a DPC, the second company who owned the warranty said it was not rising damp but condensation and didnt require the DPC to be redone, the third (rentokil) said it could be a combination of slight rising damp and condensation but didnt require a DPC, just better ventilation (the joys of air bricks being blocked up and double glazing).

Over the years many old properties have had double glazing installed and airbricks covered and that can create problems, the fact that a surveyor recognised high moisture levels but was unable to say exactly what the cause was isnt surprising - annoying as it is at least you can sleep at night knowing you have no serious problems. If there had been problems, you would still have this mess to clear up, plus a bill for sorting the work out and in some cases of rot that could really make your eyes water.

As for not answering your questions - yes, thats really shabby and I appreciate that warning, I wouldnt use a company that took my money and refused to discuss the outcome.

Chinkle

Why were you paying for two different companies to do surveys?

I think valuation surveys are always a bit more cautious and recommend further investigations, simply because they want to cover there backs as they aren't being paid to look too closely themselves. I don't think the valuation surveyors have necessarily done anything wrong.

At that point did you not tell the mortgage company that your own surveyor found no evidence of damp?

Anyway at least you now have peace of mind that there's no damp. Enjoy your new house!

Charco_2

CAN you put in a "cover your !!!!" term or condition protecting yourself from the outcome of your own negligence?

I would be surprised about this! (But i've been surprised before!)

Just because you write it in your bumpf doesn't mean it's true! Could be worth speaking to your local CAB or a solicitor for 15 minutes! It could fall under Unfair Terms and Conditions an wouldn't hold up in court if you pursued it (if you're genuinely that aggrieved!) Don't know for sure though - that's for you to check!

As for not answering your questions etc:
Do surveyors have a regulatory body? I assume you can't just call yourself a surveyor and so you are one, so speak to them again and drop into the conversation that you are unhappy and you'll be forced to go to their regulatory body, or ombudsman or whoever! You've paid your money, you're entitled to some form of satisfaction

gratefulforhelp_2

They probably did detect damp, if they used a damp meter incorrectly, it will often give false positives for damp.

Do they have membership of RICS? (Royal Institute of Chartered Surveyors)? If so, complain!

eta, you prob don't have much hope of redress here, sorry.

Alison74_2

Hi there,
Had our survey done for HSBC via e.surv. The valuation came back as £65k less than we were offering. Had to then pull out as the numbers didn't then add up with our mortgage.
Spoke to the agent yesterday who is also selling our place. She has just told me that the place went back on the market, and 2 WEEKS LATER the survey (done again by e.surv) has valued it as worth £5k more than we were paying for it! A whopping £70k difference in the 2 surveys done by the same company.
She has queried this, and was simply told that the first valuation was a mistake. This mistake has cost me £350 in solicitor fees and £1300 in (full) survey fees. Not to mention losing a really nice house.
Does anyone know where we stand on this... any chance of a refund. We were willing to respect the first decision, but this just isn't on!

Cheers A

willrowe

Yes, Esurv are cowboys of the highest order. You only have to look at the recent complaints against them on this and other similar sites.

They basically report in surveys what the lenders want them to report. Where we twice had a valuation survey carried out by an independent local RICS surveyor, Esurv's valuation on behalf of a purchaser was £20,000 lower on both occasions. This is not surprising as their web site says they don't cover our area of London!

Never, ever let Esurv across your threshold and insist that lenders use another company.

lee636

Charco wrote: »

(But i've been surprised before!)

So have i....this one time, you wouldnt believe how pretty this 'woman' was but ..........:silenced::shhh::silenced:

willrowe

In response to Alison74, you may have some luck complaining to the RICS (we've recently done this). It appears some people have at least been able to recover their valuation survey fees.

In order to do this you will first have to complain to Esurv (who will tell you that you can't complain). This however, opens the way for you to lodge a formal complaint against them with the RICS.

This undervaluing tactic by surveyors working on behalf of lenders was news to us, but after some research it appears it became widespread during the last recession and generated some news headlines towards the end of last year.

Sadly, I fear that the RICS may be fully aware of the above but with Esurv and others supposedly 'regulated' by them, any action by the RICS would be an admission of their own guilt. I believe one RICS spokesperson recently brushed off undervaluing as the result of an 'imperfect system' where there was 'no deliberate wrongdoing'.

Had the difference between Esurv's valuation and our independent one been no more than £5,000.00, we possibly might have written it off as an acceptable variation. We think however, a difference of £20,000.00 signifies some other worrying factors.

Good luck!