how can you avoid house u own paying for nursing home fees

Koicarp

Torry_Quine wrote: »

We're not however talking about people who need nursing care in a hospital setting but people who need care in a social care setting but for whatever reason have not yet been moved to a care home. The money is being wasted as it is much more expensive to care for someone in hopspital even if they don't need to be there as for example there are more nurses.

This thread started with somebody asking how they could avoid nursing home fees. Nursing homes are NOT social care settings. Nursing homes are by definition places where residents need healthcare. Social care is what happens in a "care" or "residential" home among other places. My post above refers to a hospital worker who mentions money being "wasted" even though she goes on to say they need "nursing" and are sometimes "very difficult patients".
Nursing is as I mention above provided outside the hospital, but nursing does not have to be paid for, it can be provided by district nursing teams visiting a social care setting or the patients home. If it is needed 24/7 it can be provided by NHS continuing care. I carried out an assessment for continuing care yesterday, having had the referal two hours earlier- the patient had been in hospital 4 months and the hospital decided it was discharging the patient today with 24 hours notice. Student nurses are taught that discharge planning should begin on admission day- many nurses seem to forget that quite quickly!

Torry_Quine

Koicarp wrote: »

This thread started with somebody asking how they could avoid nursing home fees. Nursing homes are NOT social care settings. Nursing homes are by definition places where residents need healthcare. Social care is what happens in a "care" or "residential" home among other places. My post above refers to a hospital worker who mentions money being "wasted" even though she goes on to say they need "nursing" and are sometimes "very difficult patients".
Nursing is as I mention above provided outside the hospital, but nursing does not have to be paid for, it can be provided by district nursing teams visiting a social care setting or the patients home. If it is needed 24/7 it can be provided by NHS continuing care. I carried out an assessment for continuing care yesterday, having had the referal two hours earlier- the patient had been in hospital 4 months and the hospital decided it was discharging the patient today with 24 hours notice. Student nurses are taught that discharge planning should begin on admission day- many nurses seem to forget that quite quickly!

Actually care home covers all types of homes and here anyway all homes are called care homes!

The care home my relative is in does have nursing care provided by the one nurse on duty at any one time which of course means the vast majority of care is provided by care workers. Although assessed as requiring nursing care such things are done by carers under the aegis of the nurse. That includes drug administration, changing dressings and tube feeding.

BobQ

lisyloo wrote: »

I think you need to see the difference between nursing and personal care.
Nurses are there to help ill people not those who need help with personal care like washing and dressing.
Time spent feeding/dressing/washing people who are not ill, is not what nurses should be doing on the NHS.
Clearly if someone is actually in in hospital then their personal needs have to be taken care of if they can't do it themselves, but people who are not ill should simply not be there.
Obviously they need care, but not in a hospital.
No-one was saying they shouldn't receive care, but not from health professionals.

I too hope you are not a nurse.

Sadly the attitude you show is consistent with the way my ill elderly relatives were treated in hospital.

I used to respect the nursing profession but now realise that many of you have no interest in caring for people only undertaking medical procedures (rather than any menial personal care).

The only thing that cheers me up is that when you get old and perhaps disabled and confused you will be treated in the the same way.

Pollycat

Koicarp wrote: »

This thread started with somebody asking how they could avoid nursing home fees.

Yeah - started 2 years ago and laid dormant until somebody brought it to life again to advertise their business - his post has now been deleted. :cool:

Koicarp

Torry_Quine wrote: »

The care home my relative is in does have nursing care provided by the one nurse on duty at any one time which of course means the vast majority of care is provided by care workers. Although assessed as requiring nursing care such things are done by carers under the aegis of the nurse. That includes drug administration, changing dressings and tube feeding.

So your relative is receiving nursing care.
The point I'm trying to make is that the acute nhs sector cannot abdicate itself of responsibility in what it sees as bed blockers. It's up to hospital staff to refer early and appropriately for a patient's discharge- to an appropriate, safe place and if the patient's needs change, they make a new referal.
One further and final point from me- it's not the place of health professionals to make subjective assessments of who should and should not pay. The idea of non-judgemental care is drummed into students for three years during their initial training yet some cannot resist. I've put together dozens of continuing care assessments this year, costing millions- but it's up to a panel whether or not they pay that money, not me. Nurses should be finding ways to provide the best care they can with the resources they have, and leaving concerns about money to their managers.

Torry_Quine

Koicarp wrote: »

So your relative is receiving nursing care.
The point I'm trying to make is that the acute nhs sector cannot abdicate itself of responsibility in what it sees as bed blockers. It's up to hospital staff to refer early and appropriately for a patient's discharge- to an appropriate, safe place and if the patient's needs change, they make a new referal.
One further and final point from me- it's not the place of health professionals to make subjective assessments of who should and should not pay. The idea of non-judgemental care is drummed into students for three years during their initial training yet some cannot resist. I've put together dozens of continuing care assessments this year, costing millions- but it's up to a panel whether or not they pay that money, not me. Nurses should be finding ways to provide the best care they can with the resources they have, and leaving concerns about money to their managers.

My relative was referred to the social work department as soon as it was clear that home wasn't an option. They were then moved to a long stay ward as it can take up to a year before an appropriate vacancy can come up.

The nursing staff have nothing to do with any financial aspect, the social worker asked if there was any money and how much and when it was clear that self-funding was the result there was no further financial discussion.

silver_cloud_2

Hi everyone Im new to this forum just joined today and have found the posts very interesting.

With regard to paying for care homes, we were at a dinner party a few weeks ago and I was sitting next to a lady that I had not met before and we started talking and she told me that her father had to go into a home because he had got Alkzeimers (sp) and that Essex County Council had slapped a charge on the title of her parents house (her mother is still living there) and frozen all her father's assets ie. bank, building society money. They will take the money for her father when her mother dies and the house is sold. Yet other councils dont seem to do this.

Yet I have known other people were no charges have been put on the house and the local authority just take part of the pension.

xylophone

http://www.dh.gov.uk/prod_consum_dh/groups/dh_digitalassets/documents/digitalasset/dh_125836.pdf The horse's mouth.

Pollycat

silver cloud
I'd be wary of believeing everything somebody tells you at a dinner party.

The link provided by xylophone is to a government document called CRAG - Charging for Residential Accommodation Guidelines.

I doubt that the council in question would be able to do as the women you were sat next to says.

silver_cloud_2

Pollycat wrote: »

silver cloud
I'd be wary of believeing everything somebody tells you at a dinner party.

The link provided by xylophone is to a government document called CRAG - Charging for Residential Accommodation Guidelines.

I doubt that the council in question would be able to do as the women you were sat next to says.

I agree with what you say but she was pretty certain. The whole thing blows my mind. I hope I never have to come to that situation.