Red Light on a driving lesson??

sundin13

Hi, this is really just a hypothetical (I hope) question, but when I was out with DS1 yesterday giving him some driving practice, he didn't see a red light at which he should have stopped before making a right turn. It was the kind of error you make when you're too busy concentrating on your right turn.

Anyway - if, and as I don't believe there's a camera at this particular intersection it's not an issue - if he had been flashed by a camera and got a penalty notice, would there have been any leniency by the DVLA on the grounds of him clearly being a learner.

As he's a 17 year old boy, it's pricey enough to insure him (£2k plus - although he's currently on Collingwood's learner driver insurance which I'd recommend as it's only about £20 a week). If he were to get points on his licence I think he would become too expensive to insure and he'd have to wait a few years to start.

Just wondered if anyone had come across this situation before?

S13

alwaysonthego_2

I do not think there would have been any leniency if he had been caught, I am sure that you would be responsible for any action/fines as you are responsible for him. When I was doing a motorway course after I passed my test the driving instructor said that if I was caught speeding, it would be me that would be fined and not her, which implies that if any of her students were caught speeding she would be the one in trouble.

TBH if he is skipping red lights because of the lack of concentration may show that he is not ready to learn how to drive just yet or he needs a professional driving instructor. You are lucky he did not cause an accident.

gordikin

Why did you not warn him about the red light?

DaveF327

Sorry, but alwaysonthego is right. The learner has no defence in law as the supervising driver should be preventing him from committing offences. The learner would be guilty of an offence under s.36 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 just like any other driver, and the supervising driver would be guilty of aiding and abetting the same offence, receiving the same fine and 3 penalty points.

gordikin wrote: »

Why did you not warn him about the red light?

That's exactly what the court would ask.

sundin13 wrote: »

It was the kind of error you make when you're too busy concentrating on your right turn.

No it isn't. Reaction to the red light (or any light) is all part and parcel of making the right turn.

janninew

Sounds a bit dangerous! What if somebody was crossing the road or another car was coming, could have caused a major accident! I believe that only qualified instructors should teach people to drive as they have the training. A year ago i was pulling out of an Asda carpark and there was a very steep hill with traffic lights on. The car in front of me was a learner driver (not with an instructor though!) and when the lights changed they couldn't find the bite and the car rolled back and hit mine! I had left quite a big space between cars as i know its a very tricky hill but they still hit my car (i couldn't roll back as there was a car very close behind me!) The passenger got out and he was very aplogetic and said his son was learning to drive and was only on his third lesson!! :eek: I didn't think he should have been doing a hill start like that on a third lesson! But the guy paid up no problem and was very apologetic.

When i was learning and doing hill starts i was quite comfortable to know that the instructor had full control of the car (dual controls!) and think when you are just starting to learn this can be invaluable!

sundin13

alwaysonthego wrote: »

TBH if he is skipping red lights because of the lack of concentration may show that he is not ready to learn how to drive just yet or he needs a professional driving instructor. You are lucky he did not cause an accident.

He has a professional driving instructor, who has given him the go ahead for accompanied practice sessions. This was the first time he has been out with me. He is unfamiliar with our car as its gearbox is much sloppier than the Corsa in which he learns, and as he had stalled twice earlier I think he was concentrating really hard on not stalling as he changed gear for the corner. Everybody makes mistakes when they are learning....and sometimes long after, so yes he is lucky not to have caused an accident....but I'd rather he made mistakes and learned from them than be over confident and thinking he's Michael Scumacher.

alwaysonthego_2

sundin13 wrote: »

He has a professional driving instructor, who has given him the go ahead for accompanied practice sessions. This was the first time he has been out with me. He is unfamiliar with our car as its gearbox is much sloppier than the Corsa in which he learns, and as he had stalled twice earlier I think he was concentrating really hard on not stalling as he changed gear for the corner. Everybody makes mistakes when they are learning....and sometimes long after, so yes he is lucky not to have caused an accident....but I'd rather he made mistakes and learned from them than be over confident and thinking he's Michael Scumacher.

Well then you are not a very good person for him to learn from if you could not warn him in advance of the red light. Surely stopping at red lights is a basic skill. I do not think it was just his mistake, but rather your mistake as you should have also been concentrationg and aware of dangers ahead.

If he is not used to the car you should have taken him to a quite industrial estate so he could get used to it. I do not like driving in new cars and it takes me a while to get use to how hard to break and clutch control. Yes everyone makes mistakes when they are learning, but you should be one step ahead as the responsible person.

LeeSouthEast

Bear in mind if there had been a camera, you would have both been ticketed.

sundin13

gordikin wrote: »

Why did you not warn him about the red light?

True. I did tell him to stop, but I should have said "Red Light, Stop" as it was too late by the time I realised he wasn't stopping because he hadn't seen the light. The oncoming traffic was a long way off so he probably must have thought I was just being over-cautious.

Another factor that really bothered me is that his instructor has apparently told him that it isn't necessary to come to a complete stop at roundabouts and junctions where you can see that nothing is coming. I don't know if this is an 'eco-driving' thing, but I really don't like it. Its fine for me to slow down/rolling halt or whatever its called, but I just don't think learners should be encouraged to do it. I think he needs to come to a full stop and think about his next move, rather than have to make a split second decision.

janninew

sundin13 wrote: »

True. I did tell him to stop, but I should have said "Red Light, Stop" as it was too late by the time I realised he wasn't stopping because he hadn't seen the light. The oncoming traffic was a long way off so he probably must have thought I was just being over-cautious.

Another factor that really bothered me is that his instructor has apparently told him that it isn't necessary to come to a complete stop at roundabouts and junctions where you can see that nothing is coming. I don't know if this is an 'eco-driving' thing, but I really don't like it. Its fine for me to slow down/rolling halt or whatever its called, but I just don't think learners should be encouraged to do it. I think he needs to come to a full stop and think about his next move, rather than have to make a split second decision.

I was taught the same way as your son, try and keep the vehicle moving instead of stopping all the time. You might start confusing him if your teaching him one thing and his driving instructor is teaching him something different. He should stick to what the instructor says, thats their job and what your paying them for!!

sundin13

alwaysonthego wrote: »

Well then you are not a very good person for him to learn from if you could not warn him in advance of the red light. Surely stopping at red lights is a basic skill. I do not think it was just his mistake, but rather your mistake as you should have also been concentrationg and aware of dangers ahead.

There's probably an element of truth there, but it is difficult to know that someone has not seen a red light when they appear to be slowing down for it (or for the corner as it happens). I don't think it's necessary for me to give a running commentary of every hazard I see. Perhaps I should get him to though!