Done up like a Kipper! Too Nice

needsomeclarification

Hi,

I think we've been done up like a kipper, by basically being nice!
We are perfect Tenents, paying by Direct debit, every month
not missing a payment.Keeping the place clean, etc, etc.

The problem....

Unbeknowst to us, we noticed our perfect flat wasn't perfect.
There were serious issues with the plumbing, the water kept cutting
out in the mornings, sometimes in the evenings, and pretty much
randomly. In the first couple of months we thought it was
a neighbourhood quirk. But no it was not a neighbourhood water pressure
problem.We soon relizeded, being the top flat
whenever anybody underneath used the water,
it cut us off.

All the Flats are connected to one Boiler on the
ground floor.

Effects of the problem....

This was more than annoying, being late in the morning for work
because the shower cuts off, not knowing when it will come on.
The toilet not refilling to flush,even pouring the water to
get a nice cup of tea could be a matter of luck.It was so random.
Of course we complained to the Letting agency and by proxy
to the Landlord.

Complaining about the Water problem....

Then began a weird pattern of unreplyed emails, and calls
to the letting agents and the Landlord,then just before rent day ,
a flurry of emails, "we're sending someone round!".

A procession of Plumbers came over 2 years.
Some came to check the local water pressure.
Some were the bioler manufacturers own plumbers,
and many just to have a look.But all of them
came to the same decision-

the Bioler was inadequate for the amount of flats
connected to it and the Pipes were too small
and had to be replaced.So we knew what had to be done.

Just to push the point.The Bioler died for a full month last spring,
we had no heating or hot water for a month.All the flats complained,
but we were continually resassured everything would be fixed,
for good.No we did not recieve compensation or a rent rebate.
We do not know the legal on this.


The Last straw...

So last month we threatened to stop the direct debit, we said they
had continually not held up their side of the contract, enforced by law
that they should provide water and heating that we were paying for.
We were paying for a service that was random and unreliable.At times
non-existant.The problem had been defined a year ago
by various experts. And they had done nothing.

They Make it worse...

Suddenly a plumber was sent to our place.
He then proceeded to place a Pump under
the bath connected by a wire drilled through
a hole to a common plug socket.We did not ask for a pump,
that was not the problem.He just came with it.
When he tested it, it sounded like a plane taking off.
The neighbours complained and worse only worked
on the pipes connected to the bath.So it did not solve
the problem. He did not seal the panel around the bath,
so water could seep and touch the wiring and the pump.
We asked some builders and found it was all against
planning regulations, and potentially dangerous. We
asked to have it switched off.It did not work to solve
the problem and the safety and legality issues.



Devious....maybe....

All this was happening and we should have realised what
was going on, we were coming to our contract renewal.
They kept sending these random plumbers and
distraction tactics.Or blatatntly not replying
so we would still pay right upto
the renewal date.We liked the flat,
not the water problem.

Of course the Landlord suddenly stopped
talking about the water problem and
terminated the contract.

Need to Know....

So we need to know, The bodies who can correct this.Links please.
Ombudsmen, Police (what powers)etc,basically people
who can bring about legal enforced change of
behaviour on the landlord or letting agents
without us fighting a lonely
court case.

.1

Should we get the council involved.because even
for the next two months we'll still have inadequate water
and probably the next tenent will have exactly the same
problem because we were not told about it, and neither
will they be.the council can force a repair order.
How do we do this?

.2

Compensation? Rebate for the two years of the
landlord violating their part of the contract and not
supplying us an adequate water service.Including
the month wthout heat&hot water.We have
all the correspondence.

Not telling us about the problem because it's a
structual problem and the previous tenent
would have had exactly the same problem.
So i'm sure they would have bought up the fact
that at times they had no water.

.3

How to fight the termination of the contract,
which is based we think as another way of avioding
legal obligations of the landlord to provide adequate
water and heating

.4

Force a removal of the dodgy pump, and i'm sure dodgy
plumber.Do we get the cops involved, because under part 5
of the building regulations what they did was a criminal offence.
the fact they did not get planning permission is also dodgy.

in conclusion...

We do not want them to get away with it.We paid the
almost mortgage like rent.Perfect tenents.We do not
want them to scam us or another tenent to get exactly
the same treatment

Clarification needed!

N79

You are responsible for enforcing your rights as Ts, although you may be able to get the correct sections of your council involved in issuing a notice to the LL requiring them to make repairs. So long as there is a supply of water and hot water in the flat, even if it is rubbish or very low pressure, then the LL has met their basic S11 obligations. I will admit to having no idea how far an intermittent supply would satisfy the LL's obligations.

Do not withhold rent without first taking legal advice. There is legal provision for you to arrange and pay for the work to be completed and then bill your LL but you must follow a set procedure of written letters before doing this. Given the scale of these works I would not recommend this course of action as you may have difficulty recovering the money if your LL evicts you. You can search on here or the Shelter website for details of the procedure you need to follow.

Quite frankly, your best course of action would be to move at the earliest opportunity.

Emma1973

Definately have a word with Enviromental Health or local Private Sector Housing team, they're always happy to give out advice, etc.
Dont stop paying the rent, it will give the LL an absolute excuse to get you out if he takes you to court to gain possession. Has he give you a proper notice to quit, or just a 'please leave the property on such and such a date? If you dont willingly want to go he has to serve the correct notices and apply to court.

needsomeclarification

It is a staturory responsibility that the landlord
keeps the pipes and water in good working order.

The water problem is not low pressure,
it cuts out completely.

There is no water.

Its not a matter of how much water
we use, it just cuts out.You could just turn on the tap
to wash your hands, and nothing comes out.
you haven't used any water yet!

So toilet does not refill, or shower cuts off,
till the other users in the block stop using it.
This is a structual problem. the bioler
and piping is not correct for the amount
of flats and users.

also, this problem was not mentioned to us
before we signed the contract or at viewing.
we were left to discover it ourselves.
I got a feeling this will happen to the next
tenents too. I don't want that to happen
and I want some recompense!

So all advice appreciated.

need clarification

superfran_uk

And to summarise??

Gingernutmeg

Personally, I'd walk away. OH and I were in a similarly difficult but different situation, and like you, we were the 'good' tenants who always paid on time and did our very best to keep on the LLs and LAs good side. When things came to a head (as these things do) it turned out that we were being ripped off not only by the LL but also by the LA, and things had got so bad that they'd acutally put our lives at risk before turning round to evict us because we'd been 'difficult' (ie we'd asked to get the problem sorted). Tbh, there's beggar all that you can do. We tried the local council and the EHO and even though they admitted there was a problem and the house was uninhabitable they did absolutely nothing. We even went to the Ombudsman and again, they did absolutely nothing, despite clear evidence which proved that the LA had acted in an extremely negligent way. This took over a LOT of our lives and it really, really isn't worth the hassle of fighting. It might be the 'right' thing to do but in renting, I've come to the conclusion that you have to look after yourself first and if a situation isn't right, you have to walk away from it as you generally can't trust LLs and LAs to be honest, do the right thing and sort serious problems like this out (and yes, I know I sound bitter and I know that there are good LLs out there, but I've never had one). Yes, it probably will happen to the next person but quite frankly, that can't be your concern. Look after yourself, move out and think seriously about whether you want something like this to take over your life. You can try to fight for recompense but it really will be an uphill struggle.

BallandChain

This water problem has been going on for 2 years? Why didn't you move out sooner? I wouldn't renew a tenancy if they messed me about like that.

Welshwoofs

There's one piece of information you've not given...

Does the LL own the whole block of flats, or does he own the top one leasehold? If he doesn't have ownership over the entire building and the plumbing is as screwed up as you say, I'd think it'd be a huge mess.

JanCee

Just walk away. One of the benefits of being a tenant as opposed to an owner/occupier is that you are not responsible for sorting out problems like this. I would have left much sooner & not waited a couple of years, but everyone is different I suppose.

needsomeclarification

The landlord owns the whole block and
the flats in it.

Yeah, i hear you about walking away,
but if everybody walked away from every single
problem this world would be even more
rubbish than it is.


As for the two years thing, well we had to
identify the problem first, we thought it was a quirk,
but after a series of experts looked at it, which took a year
basically , we knew what it was, then it was
all chasing the landlord and the agents.It all clocks up.
plus work, etc...

Of course if we had been told at time of viewing,
we may have made another decision. We were not.
I don't want some other poor sucker to give
hundreds and hundreds of pounds rent for crap
service.

need some clarification

franklee

needsomeclarification wrote: »

Need to Know....

So we need to know, The bodies who can correct this.Links please.
Ombudsmen, Police (what powers)etc,basically people
who can bring about legal enforced change of
behaviour on the landlord or letting agents
without us fighting a lonely
court case.

I read some useful advice from Tessa (English solicitor, and specialist in residential landlord and tenant law), she writes:

"There are some things I find myself saying again and again. For example it is amazing how often I find myself recommending the tenant consult the advice services of their local authority. Local authorities regulatory powers are so much wider now and they have the potential to assist tenants in many ways. In particular in unlawful eviction and harassment matters, and cases of disrepair."

She gives help on finding the local authority's details here:

http://www.localauthoritydirectory.co.uk/
http://www.landlordlaw.co.uk/page.ihtml?id=170&step=2

That said I'd move, but you could still report it. Has the pump been disconnected, that seems the most pressing issue.