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PCN for parking with one or more wheels on or over a footpath (code 622)
HolisticHarmony
Posts: 26 Forumite
I've been issued a PCN by Havering Council (London Borough of Havering) - which was received in the post 9 days after the picture was taken - and have a few queries as I plan to appeal.
The contravention code is 622: “parked with one or more wheels on or over a footpath or any part of a road other than a carriageway (partly on footway)”
The penalty charge is £100 (£50 if paid within 21 days).
This is the picture:
Unfortunately, I’ve checked the paperwork thoroughly and can find no errors whatsoever!
At the very moment the picture was taken I was being consoled by my friend because I'd just heard my Dad's dog had died (following a stroke a few days previous). I had arrived at my friend’s in the early hours of the morning (about 2.30am) and parked as I usually do when I’m there – right outside his house. I’d spent another day caring for my Dad’s dog (my Dad was unable to look after him because he’d injured his arm so was unable to lift him into the garden, etc). When I left the dog I was upset and worried as it looked as though he wasn’t going to pull through - hence I didn’t give any thought for how I was parking when I got to my friend’s. Now, I know from reading this forum that this could be deemed mitigating circumstances. However, because we had no contact with the vet and he died at home we have no evidence of exactly when he died. All I could do is ask my Dad to sign something to this effect and send a photo of the dog’s grave. I’m just concerned that this isn’t hardcore evidence. Also, my Dad’s on holiday at the moment so I’d only be able to offer that when he returns. The other thing I thought of was sending was a copy of my Dad’s phone bill showing his phone call to my friend’s house (he very rarely calls there) and copies of emails around that time (a few days before/after the date of the PCN) which is evidence that I was letting friends know about the dog’s illness/death. Any thoughts on this?
The next thing is whether anyone can signpost me (no pun intended!) to information about parking half on/half-off the pavement. The only sign I've ever seen in the road in question is a small blue and white sign showing a car half on/half off the pavement. However, after getting the PCN, I’ve noticed there’s now a large blue and white sign on the lamp post right next to where I parked. This is most definitely a recent addition (you can even tell by the newness of the silver-coloured bands used to attach it to the lamp post) but, of course, I have no proof of this and no idea exactly when it went up. Apart from these pictorial signs I can’t find information anywhere about fines if you park outside the lines. (Of course, I can see it on the table that Martin provides on his site for contravention code 622 that it’s a “serious offence” but that’s all). Can anyone tell me where I can find that information, please? I’ve tried Googling and looking in the highway code but can’t find anything. Does the fact that there’s no information about fines on the road signs mean I can appeal under “There was insufficient signage”? I may be ignorant in this but I didn’t realise that not parking in the bays properly meant you could be fined. And also can’t believe it’s deemed a “serious offence” worth a £100 penalty! (I’ve since looked at other vehicles as I drive up and down the road and so many are parked outside the bays I feel like warning them to be careful).
On the point of it being deemed a “serious offence” I don’t suppose there’s any point appealing that one is there?! In my eyes it so isn’t!
Although not on Martin’s template, another point I thought I could add is that, despite my wheels being outside the bay, I wasn’t blocking the footpath. There was still plenty of room for pedestrians, wheelchairs, pushchairs, etc to pass. I thought I could attempt to park my car in the same position and measure the distance from the wheel to the edge of the pavement. Although not scientific it would ‘prove’ that there’s still room for passing. Does anyone know the minimum width allowed/needed on pavements for wheelchairs, etc to get through?
As an aside, it’s interesting that this picture was taken as the local school children were being picked up. There’s a problem in my friend’s road with many cars blocking driveways, etc, at school collection time and it’s very likely they did it then for that very reason. The council are not to know (and wouldn’t care) that I’m not a mother picking up her children.
Last thing to mention is that I’ve just finished three years at uni as a mature student and haven’t got a job yet so could really do without having to pay this.
I know this has been long so thanks for staying with me till here
Any insights or help anyone can offer would be very much appreciated.
The contravention code is 622: “parked with one or more wheels on or over a footpath or any part of a road other than a carriageway (partly on footway)”
The penalty charge is £100 (£50 if paid within 21 days).
This is the picture:
Unfortunately, I’ve checked the paperwork thoroughly and can find no errors whatsoever!
At the very moment the picture was taken I was being consoled by my friend because I'd just heard my Dad's dog had died (following a stroke a few days previous). I had arrived at my friend’s in the early hours of the morning (about 2.30am) and parked as I usually do when I’m there – right outside his house. I’d spent another day caring for my Dad’s dog (my Dad was unable to look after him because he’d injured his arm so was unable to lift him into the garden, etc). When I left the dog I was upset and worried as it looked as though he wasn’t going to pull through - hence I didn’t give any thought for how I was parking when I got to my friend’s. Now, I know from reading this forum that this could be deemed mitigating circumstances. However, because we had no contact with the vet and he died at home we have no evidence of exactly when he died. All I could do is ask my Dad to sign something to this effect and send a photo of the dog’s grave. I’m just concerned that this isn’t hardcore evidence. Also, my Dad’s on holiday at the moment so I’d only be able to offer that when he returns. The other thing I thought of was sending was a copy of my Dad’s phone bill showing his phone call to my friend’s house (he very rarely calls there) and copies of emails around that time (a few days before/after the date of the PCN) which is evidence that I was letting friends know about the dog’s illness/death. Any thoughts on this?
The next thing is whether anyone can signpost me (no pun intended!) to information about parking half on/half-off the pavement. The only sign I've ever seen in the road in question is a small blue and white sign showing a car half on/half off the pavement. However, after getting the PCN, I’ve noticed there’s now a large blue and white sign on the lamp post right next to where I parked. This is most definitely a recent addition (you can even tell by the newness of the silver-coloured bands used to attach it to the lamp post) but, of course, I have no proof of this and no idea exactly when it went up. Apart from these pictorial signs I can’t find information anywhere about fines if you park outside the lines. (Of course, I can see it on the table that Martin provides on his site for contravention code 622 that it’s a “serious offence” but that’s all). Can anyone tell me where I can find that information, please? I’ve tried Googling and looking in the highway code but can’t find anything. Does the fact that there’s no information about fines on the road signs mean I can appeal under “There was insufficient signage”? I may be ignorant in this but I didn’t realise that not parking in the bays properly meant you could be fined. And also can’t believe it’s deemed a “serious offence” worth a £100 penalty! (I’ve since looked at other vehicles as I drive up and down the road and so many are parked outside the bays I feel like warning them to be careful).
On the point of it being deemed a “serious offence” I don’t suppose there’s any point appealing that one is there?! In my eyes it so isn’t!
Although not on Martin’s template, another point I thought I could add is that, despite my wheels being outside the bay, I wasn’t blocking the footpath. There was still plenty of room for pedestrians, wheelchairs, pushchairs, etc to pass. I thought I could attempt to park my car in the same position and measure the distance from the wheel to the edge of the pavement. Although not scientific it would ‘prove’ that there’s still room for passing. Does anyone know the minimum width allowed/needed on pavements for wheelchairs, etc to get through?
As an aside, it’s interesting that this picture was taken as the local school children were being picked up. There’s a problem in my friend’s road with many cars blocking driveways, etc, at school collection time and it’s very likely they did it then for that very reason. The council are not to know (and wouldn’t care) that I’m not a mother picking up her children.
Last thing to mention is that I’ve just finished three years at uni as a mature student and haven’t got a job yet so could really do without having to pay this.
I know this has been long so thanks for staying with me till here
Any insights or help anyone can offer would be very much appreciated.:A :A :A :A :A
If you change the way you look at things,
the things you look at change
--Wayne Dyer
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Comments
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The photograph is not too clear, is this one of those parking areas in London where you are allowed to park on the pavement but you have parked beyond the "bay"?I'd rather be an Optimist and be proved wrong than a Pessimist and be proved right.0
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I think you will probably loose this one, you are clearly outside what appears to be a marked bay.
It might be worth writing in with the sob story to appeal, include that fact that it was dark when you arrived and didn't see the marked bays (are the strretlights out of order by chance?). Send as much info as you can and just hope you get them on a good day.0 -
I think you will probably loose this one, you are clearly outside what appears to be a marked bay.
That is actually precisely why he may win. peter seems to have spotted it.
If there are permissive signs to allow pavement parking then the contravention should be described as 'parked outside the markings of the bay'.
describing a contravention wrongly invalidates the PCN.
Without proper pics of the signs, can't tell at the mo.
-0 -
Thanks all for your quick replies and comments.peter_the_piper wrote: »The photograph is not too clear, is this one of those parking areas in London where you are allowed to park on the pavement but you have parked beyond the "bay"?
Yes, it is. The sign says "in marked bays only".
Photos of signs have just been taken and will be uploaded very shortly...
Thanks again.:A :A :A :A :A
If you change the way you look at things,
the things you look at change
--Wayne Dyer
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ S A V I N G S ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Quidco..£72.75
Ski Fund 08..£50.50
Hit$4Pay..£6.49
Valued Opinions..£8.00
itsmyview..£2.00
Opinion Bar..£1.30
Doubling My Money To A Million..£5.290 -
Good, if all is as thought they have given you the incorrect contravention, as Neil says , it should be "not within marked bay" so the contravention did not occur. Post up and wait for Neils advice.I'd rather be an Optimist and be proved wrong than a Pessimist and be proved right.0
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Okay here are the signs:
This first one is the larger of the two and is on the lamp post right next to where I parked. As you can see, it clearly says “in marked bays only”.
The second one is on a lamp post on the other side of the road:
Will be over the moon if it’s as Neil B suggests. Just need to know what I need to add to my appeal in that case.
(Incidentally, I had to do these pics on a friend’s computer – with no editing/cropping facilities – so if you can’t see them properly I’ll have to redo them. Let me know, please…).:A :A :A :A :A
If you change the way you look at things,
the things you look at change
--Wayne Dyer
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ S A V I N G S ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Quidco..£72.75
Ski Fund 08..£50.50
Hit$4Pay..£6.49
Valued Opinions..£8.00
itsmyview..£2.00
Opinion Bar..£1.30
Doubling My Money To A Million..£5.290 -
Can see them fine. Neil B comes to the rescue again. I would definately say the contravention code is wrong. After all, you ARE allowed to park on the kerb. Which should be enough to get out of it...If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, we have at least to consider the possibility that we have a small aquatic bird of the family anatidae on our hands
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Thank goodness for inefficient CEO's. This should be a lot easier to get cancelled than a lot of others.I'd rather be an Optimist and be proved wrong than a Pessimist and be proved right.0
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I would definately say the contravention code is wrong. After all, you ARE allowed to park on the kerb. Which should be enough to get out of it...
Great news if that is the case. Is that what I need to say on my appeal? That I believe the contravention code is wrong because I'm allowed to park on the kerb? Won't I need to say what the contravention code should have been or give any other information? (Of course, I'll include my mitigating circumstances, etc, as well for a more substantial case).
I've never had to do this before (first so-called "offence") so I'm a bit clueless as what needs to go in there.
I'd really like to look up more information about parking in these bays (what's allowed/what isn't allowed). Can anyone signpost me on this?
Thanks again for everyone's reassurances and help so far.:A :A :A :A :A
If you change the way you look at things,
the things you look at change
--Wayne Dyer
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ S A V I N G S ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Quidco..£72.75
Ski Fund 08..£50.50
Hit$4Pay..£6.49
Valued Opinions..£8.00
itsmyview..£2.00
Opinion Bar..£1.30
Doubling My Money To A Million..£5.290 -
I still not sure the code is actually wrong. You actually have two offences there.
1. (24) Not parked correctly within the markings of the bay or space.
2. (62) Parked with one or more wheels on any part of an urban road other than a carriageway (footway parking).
The (62) offence is considered more serious than the (24) so they have done you for that one.
The reason they have used it is because that fact that you are outside the bay on the pavement side, therefore you are actually parked on the footway. For parking purposes the inside of the bay is not considered part of the footway so if you'd been inside on the pavement side but not the road side it would have been a (24) offence.
I still think the best defence is the 'flustered when I arrived due to ... etc' and hope they are having a good day and let you off.0
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