Money Moral Dilemma: Would you park free if it blocked wheelchair access?

anntics

Magic-Ian wrote: »

Getting a blue badge is not like getting a sick note. You cannot get one just on the say so of a GP. You have forms to fill in and normally have to go in front of a panel before you get one. I agree with the first part of your statement but just because you cannot see a disibility does not mean there is not one. However I applaud the rest of your statement.

Quite correct. To get a disabled badge you have to be getting the highest rate of mobility allowance and that is not easy to achieve. To get one if you are not on full MA you have to prove that you really need one and if you do you should probably be on MA anyway. All badges have an expiry date (usually 3 years)and at each renewal you have to prove your continued entitlement. My mother who is totally blind and has been for 70 years (she cannot even tell light from dark) can still only get one for 3 years and then has to provide evidence that her sight hasn't miraculously returned!

Knowing what I have to go through to get my blue badge, I would never allow anyone to use it illegally, apart from the moral issue,and the risk of a fine, I would not risk losing it for abuse, I rely on it far too much.

Invasion

Just so people are aware.... You get disabled spaces which have un-disabled bays behind them; it's a design fault, also, there's often not a choice as to which disabled bay you park in, and there are many disabled people, not enough spaces, and so often I can't get a disabled space and have huge problems getting my door open wide enough for me to fall out the door, and into my wheelchair. I don't have a WAV or a hoist currently, so I don't have the problem with needing space left behind, but I most probably will have one of the two when I pass my test and can have some kind of independence, I'd hope that people would respect the fact that without the space left I'm stuck while you're parked behind me.

mayb_2

I think we need to remember that the question did not involve parking in disabled bays but parking in a bay available to all and requiring a second bay to be left vacant. I walk with some difficulty and sometimes pain so use a walking stick. I do not qualify for a blue badge and would assume that if there was not a blue badge in the car, that the person did not qualify either.

Car bays for people with young children are provided because it is recognised it is difficult to deal with small children, trolleys and shopping in a busy car park. Those who chose to have children should not be ignored where safety is an issue and deserve to have their needs met as much as a disabled person does. One does not preclude the other. I would never park in a disabled parking bay or a bay reserved for mothers to use. I would wish that action was taken against anybody who did abuse these spaces. However, I would reserve the right to park in a legitimate parking space as near to the place I need to get to as possible - the alternative may be that I have to drive home again without getting out of the car so I would have to weigh that decision on that basis. A parent would need to weigh that decision in relation to the safety of the children. The answer is probably to lobby for more disabled bays and for them to be kept free for the disabled to use.

Bionic

Stampede wrote: »

Phew .. what a lot of related issues about who parks where and when .. but getting back to the initial simple Q:

This is an ordinary on street free parking space, not a designated one for any particular group of people.

The car has a conventional boot and nothing in the Q suggests that the vehicle is adapted to do anything but lift the lid and place objects in it, in this case a wheel chair - if anything it suggests a certain degree of mobility and ability and probably some one to assist the driver.

It would be a neat bit of parking if someone can get into a slot and only have a foot to spare so maybe there is a deliberate degree of provocation in the Q .. yes it could be done with some vehicles but I'd probably be more worried that whoever was parked to front and rear of me would not be as competent as I was getting into and out of the space and would bump front and rear of my vehicle to get out themselves - regardless of putting a wheel chair in a boot.

I think I can truthfully declare I have never knowingly improperly used a designated disabled persons space .. but I have to say that having relatives who do use a wheel chair which we place into our vehicle - if there is enough room to park in an ordinary conventional manner then there is enough room to stow the wheel chair away in ordinary conventional, non adapted vehicles and so the Q seems more hypothetical than a reality and was designed to do what it did .. explore our attitudes on wider front.

The original statement and question:
You're busy and town's even busier - all the usually available free on-street parking's gone. But after driving round for 15 minutes you spot a space, pull in, then notice a sign on the back of the car in front requesting, "please leave a six-foot gap between my car and yours so I can get the wheelchair in and out of the boot". If you stay there, there'd be a foot at most, but the alternative's an NCP at £5/hour.

Would you park free if it blocked wheelchair access?

Questions that arise from your perception of the statement:
1. Where does it say the space you've found is '..ordinary on street free parking space..'?
2. Where does it say the car has a conventional boot?
3. The sign requests politely that the user needs a 6 foot gap to deal with getting the chair in and out - why would you assume there is no adaptation?
4. Why do you assume there is someone to assist the driver? (Many disabled people live independently.)
5. Is it possible they are parked on a disabled bay adjacent to your space? (There are many like this).
6. Why do you assume they have parked in an 'ordinary conventional manner'?
7. If you can handle your relatives wheelchair in an 'ordinary conventional manner' - why would you assume that the disabled driver can do the same?

Unfortunately the practical side of this question is more than hypothetical and a daily reality for some disabled people but I do agree with you that it has explored our attitudes on a much wider front than the original writer expected.

savingqueen

spaggit wrote: »

i am usually quite reserved bout these kind of issue's however disabled people do get right up my nose,how many times do you drive around car parks to find loads of empty spaces all with disabled badges and a lovely colourful sign saying if you park there without a disabled badge on show then you will be fined for your actions, so no it wouldn't bother me seeing a sign saying please keep clear as these days it seems as it's every man and woman for there selves and selfishness takes prefferance i'm affraid.:cool:

"however disabled people do get right up my nose" oh dear poor you, all those disabled people annoying you, maybe they should just stay indoors out of the way, they are so selfish wanting to do the normal, everyday things most people take for granted. Oh by the way I am disabled though my mobility is not restricted in any way but I'm really happy to be lumped into a stereotype with other annoying disabled people. I do have one thing to be grateful for though I'm not related to any of the incredibly mean (in both senses of the word), ignorant and selfish people who would have no qualms at all about making life harder for someone, a fellow being with the same rights to participate in "normal" life as the next person, who through no fault of their own has to battle against additional physical, social and possibly medical & economic problems.

Oh and I have 2 small children, never park where I shouldn't but do appreciate parent & child spaces. I have been in situations where I have been unable to get my pregnant body and a baby or a baby and toddler out of a normal space and had to wait for ages for someone to move or help me.

Specially designated spaces are there for a reason and if people with particular needs whether a disability, pregnancy, young children, ill health or a combination
need extra room for parking in such a bay or if none available in 2 ordinary bays or whatever....is it such a big deal for the rest of the population? How do such selfish people (those who don't give a **** about others in more vulnerable circumstances) have friends? Most of the world's problems stem from greed and selfishness.

I'll stand down from my soapbox now.... I'm lucky I can

Fredd_3

BigSky wrote: »

Absolutely NOT! Only the most ignorant lazy !!!!!! would do that.

I’d park in a “family” parking bay though even if I was on my own. Why should people that decide to bring their screaming, fat, badly-behaved kids round the supermarket get special parking bays?

Mmm, have you thought that by taking up family spaces, you are stopping parents being able to get their baby in a car seat in and out of their car? Normal spaces aren't wide enough. What is the difference between that and parking behind someone needing wheelchair access?

Maybe you should rethink your first comment...

jvimum

No I would definitely not do that.
I do agree about the parent/child parking spaces. Parents should be able to control their children and put them in a pushchair or hold their hands and walk - we did it in my day!
Parent/child spaces prevent older, less mobile people who are not immobile enough to have a disbled badge from parking near the shop. With the current arrangement you can be in a great deal of pain from arthritis and still have to walk further than people and their healthy kids.

Stampede_2

Bionic wrote: »

The original statement and question:
You're busy and town's even busier - all the usually available free on-street parking's gone. But after driving round for 15 minutes you spot a space, pull in, then notice a sign on the back of the car in front requesting, "please leave a six-foot gap between my car and yours so I can get the wheelchair in and out of the boot". If you stay there, there'd be a foot at most, but the alternative's an NCP at £5/hour.

Would you park free if it blocked wheelchair access?

Questions that arise from your perception of the statement:
1. Where does it say the space you've found is '..ordinary on street free parking space..'?
2. Where does it say the car has a conventional boot?
3. The sign requests politely that the user needs a 6 foot gap to deal with getting the chair in and out - why would you assume there is no adaptation?
4. Why do you assume there is someone to assist the driver? (Many disabled people live independently.)
5. Is it possible they are parked on a disabled bay adjacent to your space? (There are many like this).
6. Why do you assume they have parked in an 'ordinary conventional manner'?
7. If you can handle your relatives wheelchair in an 'ordinary conventional manner' - why would you assume that the disabled driver can do the same?

Unfortunately the practical side of this question is more than hypothetical and a daily reality for some disabled people but I do agree with you that it has explored our attitudes on a much wider front than the original writer expected.

I take the information that is posed in the Q .. nothing more and nothing less 'on street parking ( initially it's gone but )......'having driven round eventually you find a space' for I am sure if the Q wanted us to consider that it was a designated disabled space or zone they would have said so, designated disabled spaces are designed by their width or length to anticipate the extra space requirements. Logically we are talking about parallel kerb side parking. The sign ' on the back of the car' clearly says 'boot', not 'doors' not 'tailgate' had it been pay or display or any other considerations the Q would have mentioned them, in fact the Q does say that an alternative pay facility is also available 'at the NCP ' hence why I have tried only to deal with the information given, I have not tried to rewrite the Q or to answer a Q I wished they had asked but strictly to deal with the information given.

To the various posts that have tried to pick me up on what I have said, ( please see also 287 ante & 292 & 310 post). I reiterate, I have not tried to pad out my response by putting in assumptions or giving an answer that depends upon facts not given. It is obvious that the space in question is in tandem behind the one that has the sign on it for otherwise the Q would not make sense, as for modifications, tail gates and other assumptions, surely we all know what a 'car boot' is etc. etc. Finally, please do not misconstrue anything I have said to suggest I would not give proper consideration to legitimate disabled spaces or users, far from it. I have one close family member who uses a modified swing out disabled car seat, and another who uses a conventional wheel chair, and two legitimate blue bage holders. ( As far as I am concerned this correspondence is now closed !! )

chriswatts

Stampede wrote: »

The sign ' on the back of the car' clearly says 'boot', not 'doors' not 'tailgate' had it been pay or display or any other considerations the Q would have mentioned them

The problem is the Q doesn't mention many things with extra information it could alter the situation altogether, if it's two disabled vehicles that is a complete different kettle of fish. A normal car with disabled badge does not need or in a normal disabled bay does not get a six foot gap, therefore I can only assume we are talking about either a van or a 4x4 that has a tail lift fitted.

nitrofunction

I suppose if I just wanted to stop for a minute to post a letter, drop off repeat prescription at doctors reception, etc., as long as I was close enough to monitor the situation I would park there.

I would not leave my car there any longer; not out of concern for the disabled person, but for concern that my car would be vandalised if I did!

Of course, my mission is important to me, but I would never risk damage to car in any situation.

BTW, doesn't it annoy you when people park along side the road (unmarked parking) and leave 9/10ths of a cars length gap between each other! It's this kind of inconsiderate parking that really gets my goat!

Also, ever wondered how parents find it so difficult to get their kids to school at 9AM, but can get them into ASDA at 7.30AM on a Saturday morning, little barstewards dipping their fingers into the salad bar!

Note: I DID actually see this happening; 2 kids were with their grandparents who no doubt thought that it was cute!