Unenforceability & Template Letters

Quo_Vadis_2

never-in-doubt wrote: »

Nah, you just leave it alone. Bottom line, when the DCA writes to you simply send a copy of letters to date and inform them

Thats about it matey!

Happy

That's good enough for me!

Thanks have been left:T

scarednshakin

Hi N-I-D, a great letter this morning from Crap One. This is my OH account, he had not been paying and Sar'd them. They passed acc onto CapQuest and he told them that he was waiting for SAR info to come through. CapQuest said they would get back in touch, when they did on 3 Sep he was told that Cap One 'have advised us that they are unable to provide a copy of the agreement for the above account and request that you contact their Complaints Depart if you wish to discuss this matter further'.

He sent Account in Dispute letter on 12 Sept and today got a response from them. Would it be ok to copy the info in a PM to you as there are 6 pages? Really not sure how to reply and know they are horrible to deal with. Thanks SNS

never-in-doubt

scarednshakin wrote: »

Hi N-I-D, a great letter this morning from Crap One. This is my OH account, he had not been paying and Sar'd them. They passed acc onto CapQuest and he told them that he was waiting for SAR info to come through. CapQuest said they would get back in touch, when they did on 3 Sep he was told that Cap One 'have advised us that they are unable to provide a copy of the agreement for the above account and request that you contact their Complaints Depart if you wish to discuss this matter further'.

He sent Account in Dispute letter on 12 Sept and today got a response from them. Would it be ok to copy the info in a PM to you as there are 6 pages? Really not sure how to reply and know they are horrible to deal with. Thanks SNS

Ok, is it a bad letter or what? lol..... if they don't have the CCA then they should be confirming it is unenforceable and end things there...?

But feel free to PM me...

scarednshakin

No, just very long!!!! Calmed down a bit and read through the terms they have sent out today, which are "a true copy of the original executed agreement" where it states that the charges for late/default etc is £15. This is not right because when he took out the card it was £18 or £20 as I checked the statements.

The letter goes on to say "your agreement is fully complies (yep good grasp of english) with the CCA 1974 and I need to advise you that your agreement is in the correct format, as evidenced by the documents we have already provided. We have complied with all aspects of your request, by providing you with a true copy of your credit agreements as you've requested. As advised above we have also enclosed, with this letter, a true copy of your original executed agreement.

Your account is not in dispute; therefore, we will continue to pursue the outstanding balance. You clearly have a valid and enforceable credit agreement with Capital One, and any claim to the contrary will be strongly defended.

The status of your account remains defaulted. The current outstanding balance due and payable is.

we will continue to pursue the outstanding debt and will defend any application you may wish to bring against us.

Financial regulations require me to advise you that this is my final response in relation to this matter."

Ok all they have sent out today is a 4 page copy of terms and conditions which they claim are from when he opened the account on plain paper.

What do I send back to them now, he was told in Sept by CapQuest that Cap One did not have the agreement. Confused now (even more than before) and really don't like Cap One!

Jackswan_2

never-in-doubt wrote: »

Ok, is it a bad letter or what? lol..... if they don't have the CCA then they should be confirming it is unenforceable and end things there...?

But feel free to PM me...

I have an account with Capital One, have had since December 1999. I sent off the first letter on the 20th August, they replied on the 10th September (outside 12+2) enclosing a current page of Terms & Conditions. I sent the second letter off on the 19th September expecting a reply by the 19th October. I had a reply yesterday, postmark 27.10.09, however the letter was dated 13th October. I found the response letter bizarre to say the least.

It informs me that they had previously forwarded me my current agreement on the 10th September, although not required under section 78, also included is a true copy of the original executed agreement. This agreement is between you and us !!!!!!

Granted it tells me what the interest rates will be up until July 2000. This form does not have my personal details and is not signed by me.

Back to the letter - agreement is in the correct format and fully complies with the CCA 1974 and you have been provided with a true copy of the CCA as requested. It also informs me that the credit limit is specifically provided on the CCA - sorry there is no figure listed, doubtless because the CCA is a standard document for all card holders. In a nutshell they inform me that they do not accept that the agreement is unenforceable,
clearly it is a valid and enforceable credit agreement as evidenced by the documents already provided and any claim to the contrary will be strongly defended.

The letter then defends their right to disclose what they like to CRA's and that I am not entitled to serve a notice under section 10 of the Act as they maintain they informed me on application how my data would be processed and that the IC has confirmed it is appropriate for lenders to share information about customers accounts with CRA's. My notice is entirely unjustified and inappropriate and Capital One is unable to comply with my notice.

As it happens my account is in order and payments up to date, I have incurred a few Default sums for late payments over the years.

Final threat ! We will defend any application you may wish to bring against us. If you remain unhappy contact the FOS within six months of this letter.

Jackswan_2

Not a reply to any specific issue, but, I was chatting to someone earlier who had used Brunel Franklin who had then passed their claim onto a Solicitor. By coincidence it was against Capital One.
Apparently there was a hearing on the 24th September which favoured the Bank's and when this chap rang to enquire how his claim was getting along as it was July 2009 that he started the claim through the Solicitor, he was told that the senior partner was reading through the judgement which was received late last week as to what the next course of action is/isn't goint to be.

never-in-doubt

Jackswan wrote: »

I have an account with Capital One, have had since December 1999.

Hiya matey

This makes no sense, if you're up-to-date with payments and not in arrears what are you doing exactly? You would only really utilise CCA if you were in debt in the first place, if your credit file is intact then don't mess around mate!

You just need to claim charges back, there is a template & instructions on here: http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/credit-card-charges

Otherwise, although it sounds like you have a non compliant CCA, its really not worth ruining your credit file for one card debt....

Hope that helps - good luck

never-in-doubt

scarednshakin wrote: »

No, just very long!!!! Calmed down a bit and read through the terms they have sent out today, which are "a true copy of the original executed agreement" where it states that the charges for late/default etc is £15. This is not right because when he took out the card it was £18 or £20 as I checked the statements.

They can send a true copy out to you, but to be fair if it is using different terms then this immediately puts that process into severe disrepute.

scarednshakin wrote: »

The letter goes on to say "your agreement is fully complies (yep good grasp of english) with the CCA 1974 and I need to advise you that your agreement is in the correct format, as evidenced by the documents we have already provided. We have complied with all aspects of your request, by providing you with a true copy of your credit agreements as you've requested. As advised above we have also enclosed, with this letter, a true copy of your original executed agreement.

Ok, whatever they say!

scarednshakin wrote: »

Your account is not in dispute;

It is not for them to decide whether it is in dispute, it is for you to decide and they have no right to deny the dispute based on 'their' ascertations alone!

scarednshakin wrote: »

therefore, we will continue to pursue the outstanding balance. You clearly have a valid and enforceable credit agreement with Capital One, and any claim to the contrary will be strongly defended.

Excellent, another fight with Cap1 coming along then! I love telling them muppets off and teaching them the law! More on this can be found here (4 months of fighting and we now have them in a corner with nowhere to turn, worth a read)...

Start here but go back further if you get interested lol

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...626277&page=18

scarednshakin wrote: »

The status of your account remains defaulted. The current outstanding balance due and payable is

How much?

scarednshakin wrote: »

we will continue to pursue the outstanding debt and will defend any application you may wish to bring against us.

Great - lets see what they have to say to my letter then!

scarednshakin wrote: »

Financial regulations require me to advise you that this is my final response in relation to this matter."

Not for long matey boy

scarednshakin wrote: »

Ok all they have sent out today is a 4 page copy of terms and conditions which they claim are from when he opened the account on plain paper.

What do I send back to them now, he was told in Sept by CapQuest that Cap One did not have the agreement. Confused now (even more than before) and really don't like Cap One!

I'll sort you a letter, bear with me and i'll post it up for you shortly - after you help with the info I need....

Obviously, at the moment I just need you to confirm the balance, the date you last paid, the date you originally sent the CCA, the date of their letter, is this the only letter you have had back from them after issuing the CCA?

Try and post a bullet point list of events to date to make it easier for me to get to grips with (bear in mind i have to pretend to be you to do the letter for you!)...

Get back to me asap and i'll sort your response to them....

Cheers

gnatshill

I've never done this so a little unsure what to expect! On behalf of my partner I've requested CCA mainly because an agency he used ages ago got him in a worse state and now he barely knows what debt is what. I also thought I'd try the unenforcibility thing as he's always had payment protection and they never suggested he use it when work fell through. Capital One sent a copy of the CCA stating it was the original but without personal details, signature etc as they do not have to. Evrything else looks like it follows but is that acceptable? What should the next step be? Can unenforceability work in light of recent articles and judgements?

never-in-doubt

gnatshill wrote: »

I've never done this so a little unsure what to expect! On behalf of my partner I've requested CCA mainly because an agency he used ages ago got him in a worse state and now he barely knows what debt is what. I also thought I'd try the unenforcibility thing as he's always had payment protection and they never suggested he use it when work fell through. Capital One sent a copy of the CCA stating it was the original but without personal details, signature etc as they do not have to. Evrything else looks like it follows but is that acceptable? What should the next step be? Can unenforceability work in light of recent articles and judgements?

Is it just Capital One? Have they added a default?

Regards to PPI, you first of all have to deal with that by using the process here: http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/rec...t-card-charges

After they have dealt with that, you then proceed with the CCA Request - don;t worry about what they have sent you right now - it won't be lawful but you're best to get a refund of charges and PPI before proceeding through unenforceability. Nothing has changed in terms of it, yea the court backed a lender due to unique circumstances which are not likely to affect everyday claims so don;t worry too much about it.

We're here to help now so will be able to keep you on the right track... just hold fire if you get a reply and wait for one of us to help cos you could shoot yourself in the foot!

The process you follow is:

1 - reclaim charges & ppi
2 - fight for legality of CCA (unenforceability)
3 - fight any default (unless not occurred in which case try and pay the debt)
4 - court action to enforce unenforceability rights if they refuse to send the CCA - last resort.

So, as above explains, if you've not got a default as yet then make an offer and stay within the boundaries of the account or you'll end up with a default which lasts 6yrs!

Good Luck - post back if you need extra help....

Go here for PPI reclaim: http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/rec...t-card-charges