Unenforceability & Template Letters

DebtFreeMummy

Hi there sorry it might have been asked already but what sign digitally mean?? How would i do that?
Im sending a CCA request to catalogue company as im quite certain i never returned a signed copy is the letter on the first page still the most receant?? Thanks

scarednshakin

Hi N-I-D, glad you had a good time on holiday, could you pass on some of the good weather please!!!

Can you give me help with Clydesdale Bank?? CCA'd them in June and received application form and current terms. Wrote back in August with Account in Dispute letter, got a holding letter from them in Sept saying they would be back in touch in 4 weeks, got another one on 17 Sept saying they were investigating and would be in touch in 4 weeks. Got response from them this week, stating that 'all the prescribed terms of which must be included in the agreement under the CCA Reg 1983 are stated in the credit agreement enclosed. The agreement therefore has been properly executed and the debt is not unenforceable under section 127 of the CCA 1974, as you claim.

Turning to our response to your request under section 78(1) of the CCA 1974, we have supplied you with a true copy of your executed credit agreement and a copy of the terms and conditions which were applicable at the time the agreement was executed. Please also find enclosed a copy of the latest terms and conditions as varied.

Section 172 of the CCA makes any statement we provide under section 78(1) binding on the Bank but it does not prohibit us from being in a position to comply with section 78(1).

The information we have provided to you is fully compliant with section 78(1) of the CCA.'

What do I do now, they have sent out a copy of the application form, a copy of the terms and conditions when card was taken out but there is no credit limit, no interest rates mentioned and also a copy of current terms.

Thank you and sorry if a bit long winded and for any spelling mistakes, go too fast without checking!!

jamie07971

DebtFreeMummy wrote: »

Hi there sorry it might have been asked already but what sign digitally mean?? How would i do that?
Im sending a CCA request to catalogue company as im quite certain i never returned a signed copy is the letter on the first page still the most receant?? Thanks

Hi

If you google it then it will come up a few websites that design a signature for you for free to put onto your letters.

here is one for you http://www.mylivesignature.com/

Jamie

never-in-doubt

DebtFreeMummy wrote: »

Hi there sorry it might have been asked already but what sign digitally mean?? How would i do that?
Im sending a CCA request to catalogue company as im quite certain i never returned a signed copy is the letter on the first page still the most receant?? Thanks

It means type your name or get a mate to do it - it doesn't mean go and buy software to do it lol

Some lenders have been known to copy and paste signatures onto agreements. Therefore typing your name stops them doing it.....:rotfl:

never-in-doubt

scarednshakin wrote: »

Can you give me help with Clydesdale Bank?? CCA'd them in June and received application form and current terms. Wrote back in August with Account in Dispute letter, got a holding letter from them in Sept saying they would be back in touch in 4 weeks, got another one on 17 Sept saying they were investigating and would be in touch in 4 weeks. Got response from them this week, stating that 'all the prescribed terms of which must be included in the agreement under the CCA Reg 1983 are stated in the credit agreement enclosed. The agreement therefore has been properly executed and the debt is not unenforceable under section 127 of the CCA 1974, as you claim.

Turning to our response to your request under section 78(1) of the CCA 1974, we have supplied you with a true copy of your executed credit agreement and a copy of the terms and conditions which were applicable at the time the agreement was executed. Please also find enclosed a copy of the latest terms and conditions as varied.

Section 172 of the CCA makes any statement we provide under section 78(1) binding on the Bank but it does not prohibit us from being in a position to comply with section 78(1).

The information we have provided to you is fully compliant with section 78(1) of the CCA.'

What do I do now, they have sent out a copy of the application form, a copy of the terms and conditions when card was taken out but there is no credit limit, no interest rates mentioned and also a copy of current terms.

Thank you and sorry if a bit long winded and for any spelling mistakes, go too fast without checking!!

Hiya,

just send this letter adding the bits you need to....

CCA Request Query Letter

Dear Sirs,

Account No:

On xx/xx/2009 I wrote to xxxxxxxxx requesting that you supply me a true copy of the executed credit agreement for this account.

In response to this request I was supplied a document a copy of which is attached which did not comply with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

The document sent purporting to be a credit agreement does not contain any of the prescribed terms as required by section 60(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) made under the authority of the “1974 Act” sets out what the prescribed terms are, I refer you to Schedule 6 Column 2 of SI 1983/1553 for the definition of what is required. Suffice to say none of the terms are present in the document

Since this document does not contain the required prescribed terms it is rendered unenforceable by s127 (3) consumer Credit Act 1974, which states

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

This situation is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

In addition should you continue to pursue me for this debt you will be in breach of the OFT guidelines, I draw your attention to the Office of Fair Trading’s guidance on debt collection;

The OFT guidance which was issued July 2003 (updated December 2006) relating to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I have enclosed an excerpt from page 5 of the guidance which states;

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment

I require you to produce a compliant copy of my credit agreement to confirm I am liable to you or any organisation, which you represent for this alleged debt, if you cannot do so I require written clarification that this is the case. Should you ignore this request I will report you to the Office of Fair Trading to consider your suitability to hold a credit licence in addition to a complaint to Trading Standards, as you will be in breach of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40.

Since the agreement is unenforceable, it would be in everyone’s interest to consider the matter closed and for you to write the debt off. I suggest you give serious consideration to this as any attempt of litigation will be vigorously defended and I will counter claim for all quantifiable damages

I respectfully request a response to this letter in 14 days.

Yours faithfully




Sign digitally

DebtFreeMummy

Thanks so I have now copied the letter added my account number and the signiture I just made and put that i will be sending a postal order (no cheque book) also added my address to the top is this all I need to do? Thanks

never-in-doubt

DebtFreeMummy wrote: »

Thanks so I have now copied the letter added my account number and the signiture I just made and put that i will be sending a postal order (no cheque book) also added my address to the top is this all I need to do? Thanks

Yes and send it recorded delivery and wait! :beer:

DebtFreeMummy

Thanks shall be sending tomorrow!

tryingto

never-in-doubt wrote: »

Then it is up to you to enforce the threat! If they do not send the CCA then cease payment! This way they have to listen or the debt is uenforceable until such time they comply and send a copy of your agreement!

Obviously you may be defaulted (if not already) by ceasing payments but that is the price to pay unfortunately.... see above case, whereby paying is not always the best method! Had the OP in that case just ignored the lender then the debt would have been cleared over 4 years ago - let alone 20 to go!

My point is you need to do what is right for you, for the moment and short term. So if you don't have a mortgage but have a default, why worry cos the default is already there! That said, the opposite - say you have a mortgage and want to change it, and are just in arrears; then you obviously don't take this action until after you're settled.

You call the shots and you need to be in control, not them

Well, I definitely don't feel like I call the shots (more totally clueless) but I guess that is the problem...pushover! Thanks very much.

Yes, I have defaults on them all already. No mortgage, no assets and very little income. So, I suppose I don't have as much to lose as most people as i have already lost it all! Guess I just need to try and find some more courage, I find the debt collectors very intimidating but send all the right letters to them. They just ignore me when i ask for anything though and send the usual letters and say they will visit in person. I think then I will send them all one more letter and then if I don't get the agreements stop the token payments. I have been scared to do that in case it causes them to get more aggressive and I wasn't sure (what with all the cases going to court) if they definitely had to provide a CCA. Also, didn't know what to do when they sent me photocopied terms etc. So, stop paying seems to be the answer. Thanks again.

scarednshakin

Thanks N-I-D do I send this letter to them again? It is the same as the letter I sent to them in August and that was the reply I got, telling me that the debt is enforceable.