Training Courses for Doctors - Any Tax relief?

happywarmgun

Because both my wife and I are top rate tax payers but working for big employers every couple of years we get letters from HMRC telling us we do not need to complete a self-assessment because our lot are good at the PAYE. That seems to save a lot of hassle, so I've been glad of it.

Recently though I've been wondering if this really is in our favour - particularly my wife.

My wife is a doctor with the NHS (registrar surgeon). Some of the fees she picks up for this are astronomical...

For instance her Annual membership of the Royal College of Surgeon's is about a grand a year - she would not be allowed to do her job if she wasn't a member - then she has BMA fees (Several hundred quid) also.

In addition - she also has to pay for some of her own training courses (her NHS training budget is 250 squid a year). The two courses (four days worth) she is attending this year are costing 1700 quid.

Whilst I would like to rant on here about why work doesn't pick up the tab for this (my work pay all my professional fees and training fees) the fact is they don't - so can we get any tax deductions?

Obviously, only want to go on self assessment if it is worth our while so any advice really appreciated. Curiously her fellow doctors are all very coy about how they do their tax affairs and not keen to share views on this....

BoGoF

The professional subscription to the two bodies mentioned are allowable. She doesn't need a Tax Return to claim these, just write a letter with the names of the bodies and the amounts paid in each tax year.

The training courses are a different matter, the legislation states that to qualify for tax relief the expense must be incurred in the performance of the duties of the actual employment. It is HMRC's view that expenses incurred to improve or maintain ones knowledge are not allowable and that when your wife is attending these courses she is not performing here duties of employment as a surgeon and therefore no relief is due

happywarmgun

Thanks BoGoF. Advide much appreciated.

Talk about a disincentive to train! Maybe the government has good reason to stop computer nerds claiming back "web design" courses or whatever - but you would have thought they would want our surgeons to stay current and understand the latest thinking and technology. The mind boggles at the logic of 'HMRCs view".

Ho de hum.

John_Pierpoint

Are training courses tax allowable against corporation tax?
Some of the courses I was sent on in a former life also cost something astronomical for what they were.
Employer paid so I'm sure they took it off their taxable profit.

pandora205

I'm a higher rate tax payer too and IR told me I don't need to complete forms as I am PAYE. However, I discovered I could claim professional fees so phoned up tax office, who asked for proof for last six years. I eventually got this from my professional body and it was deducted from my tax (alteration of tax code).

I don't know about claiming for training as mine is paid by my employer, although I have spent a lot on books for my (long) course. I don't think I can claim for these though.

John_Pierpoint

jimmo wrote: »

When I first read BOGOF’s reply I thought “That’s wrong.” but a few minutes on the HMRC website proved to me that BOGOF is right.
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/eimanual/eim32525.htm

For the self-employed the general rule is that training to develop new skills is not allowable but training to maintain and update existing skills is allowable.
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/bimmanual/BIM42526.htm

If your wife were also in private practise as well as her NHS job...
Maybe that is why her colleagues are so coy about their tax affairs.

Actually it does sort of make sense (unlike several totally arbitrary decisions in tax law).
If you are on PAYE you are the "servant", your employer is your "master".
Your master decides what is good for you. If you don't like your master keeping you in ignorant servitude, go and get a better master or become self employed.

Ray_Arman

There is no need for self assessment if all it is that you want to claim expenses of employment...HMRC will accept written correspondence in which you / your wife can detail all the work related expenses.

HMRC are strict in giving tax relief for out of pocket expenses of NHS employees but this is not impossible as long as you are willing to persist with lengthy correspondences. However, on the plus side, NHS doctors may go back up to six tax years and claim relief for professional subscriptions and small items of medical equipment. Further, there are instances where business travel may also be claimed successfully. For grey areas such as course expenses, it is difficult but not impossible to sway HMRC that relief should be given in particular where the course related to training and not for attaining new qualifications.

Should your wife have any private income in the future then tax law is much more lenient on expenses that can be deducted.....

clareanddavid

My sister is a doctor and also claims tax relief against the masses of books she buys to 'maintain her knowledge'. And these are not cheap. So it may be worth looking in to that as well!

Ray_Arman

If you are a self employed doctor then claiming books is possible. As an employee, on the other hand, you will have to prove to HMRC that the books were 'necessary' for doing your job, i.e. your employer does not provide these to you and all of your colleagues doing the same job are also required to purchase their own books. Again, be prepared for lenghty correspondences with HMRC if questioned.