Half of apprentices dumped by construction firms

lostinrates

vivatifosi wrote: »

I missed this post originally, so thanks for thriftybabe for quoting it. The public does have a big part to play in this. They want the best quality work for the lowest possible price, so its no surprise that skills are being lost, especially ones that aren't obvious to the general public. I have a real problem with people who object to tradespeople earning £40k pa plus, when they wouldn't bat an eyelid if a salesperson earned the same (nothing against sales people, just making a point).

And a good one. And how ironic its types under the MSE banner!

dopester

treliac wrote: »

Sadly, everything you are saying points to a general decline in the attitude of many Brits.

It's about time we had a good shake up and developed an expectation that we should get out there, work, and work properly for a living and for a better future for this country.

My pride at being British has seriously waned in recent years. We could do with an end to concentrating on our individual rights rather than our shared responsibilities; getting back some self-respect and pride in what we can do for ourselves and others.

Have you been away trel? Know you've been around the last week or so, but before that.. unless I didn't read some threads, not seen many posts of yours.

Think you mean well in that post, and I agree with near all of it, but I'm a bit of a defender of individual rights.

In fact I think the New Labour socialist experiment to 'make things fair', has been dangerous meddling.

When individuals are encouraged to make sacrifices above and beyond towards any number of higher causes, or towards society itself, it can be very dangerous - but I don't think you were pushing towards that extreme.

The highest cause is the well-being and happiness of the conscious individual. The individual, a minority of one, in the smallest, the most important, most unprotected of all minorities. If rights of the individual are fully protected, then all rights are fully protected for everyone.

The concept of minority rights is meaningless, prejudice and destructive. The concept is a tool used to usurp power and unearned values not by protecting but by violating the rights of individuals.

dopester

Also the work and work properly. Yes, but I don't think there are jobs for all. Credit expansion helped with employment. It brought about lots of employment.

The contraction makes many jobs non-existent, as many businesses could only survive in the boom conditions. Or brings damage to those businesses which over-borrowed to expand, expecting the boom to continue. Or makes for lower pay as the contraction takes hold.

thriftybabe

dopester wrote: »

Also the work and work properly. Yes, but I don't think there are jobs for all. Credit expansion helped with employment. It brought about lots of employment.

The contraction makes many jobs non-existent, as many businesses could only survive in the boom conditions. Or brings damage to those businesses which over-borrowed to expand, expecting the boom to continue. Or makes for lower pay as the contraction takes hold.

I agree Dopester. I know Persimmon have paid off everyone that they need to and are running ok at the moment but what about all the other staff who used to work for them. In addition due to the recession the black market in Construction is huge especially extensions where we need to charge VAT. We are getting beat by guys who are doing cash deals. However, people still want some guarantee and they want us to the job but at the same price as the cash guys! Our Company has a good name and a lot of it is word of mouth and clients want us to come down to levels where we would lose money after paying tax and VAT.

Alan_M_2

thriftybabe wrote: »

I agree Dopester. I know Persimmon have paid off everyone that they need to and are running ok at the moment but what about all the other staff who used to work for them. In addition due to the recession the black market in Construction is huge especially extensions where we need to charge VAT. We are getting beat by guys who are doing cash deals. However, people still want some guarantee and they want us to the job but at the same price as the cash guys! Our Company has a good name and a lot of it is word of mouth and clients want us to come down to levels where we would lose money after paying tax and VAT.

This has always been an inherent problem in the UK where VAT fraud is considered socially acceptable.

I can't run my business any other way than completely above board, I buy a product in (imported) and sell it one...there is no room for "cash sales" or any possibility I can lose VAT, but I'm asked daily by even the most upstanding pillars of the community who would be considered whiter than white.

I fully believe I will see an end of the use of cash as we know it in my lifetime (I'm 40). Transactions above a certain amount of money (say something over £20 or so) will have to be undertaken by electronic means - debit/credit card - bank transfer etc.

I do take cash, but I charge VAT as normal, however it now costs me more to pay that cash into a bank than to take a bank transfer or debit card.

I had a customer this week paid me £6,200 in cash....that cost me £35 to pay into my business account "Cash handling fee" (LloydsTSB).

If I'd taken a debit card it would have been 25 pence.

I feel like I'm being screwed from every possible angle.

jonty12

Alan_M wrote: »

This has always been an inherent problem in the UK where VAT fraud is considered socially acceptable.

I can't run my business any other way than completely above board, I buy a product in (imported) and sell it one...there is no room for "cash sales" or any possibility I can lose VAT, but I'm asked daily by even the most upstanding pillars of the community who would be considered whiter than white.

I fully believe I will see an end of the use of cash as we know it in my lifetime (I'm 40). Transactions above a certain amount of money (say something over £20 or so) will have to be undertaken by electronic means - debit/credit card - bank transfer etc.

I do take cash, but I charge VAT as normal, however it now costs me more to pay that cash into a bank than to take a bank transfer or debit card.

I had a customer this week paid me £6,200 in cash....that cost me £35 to pay into my business account "Cash handling fee" (LloydsTSB).

If I'd taken a debit card it would have been 25 pence.

I feel like I'm being screwed from every possible angle.

totally agree Alan. That bank charge is taking the P though, have you looked at the A&L business account - no charges for cash deposits

thriftybabe

We have worked in the new build area for years. It is only in the last couple of ears that we decided we better diversify. So far it has worked out okay but I am dreading when they put VAT up. We have been asked lots of times about cash deals as they can get it cheaper elsewhere. We tell that our Liability Insurance wont cover us if their house falls down and that sometime makes them think twice. We get everything paid by cheque and accept no cash. I could not face a VAT inspector in the eye if we were doing something dishonest! I would be ill.

Years ago we tried to help a family member buy a van and save them the VAT. I could not go through with it and we paid £1750 in VAT out of our own pockets when it came to the crunch! Could never ever do that again. I was ill. Needless to say we did not say to the family member and we lost out!!!

Alan_M_2

jonty12 wrote: »

totally agree Alan. That bank charge is taking the P though, have you looked at the A&L business account - no charges for cash deposits

Unfortunately A&L don't really provide the services I require, they are fine for small firms but when you need letters of credit and deal with International payments the nuisance of not dealing with a main clearing bank outweighs the savings made.

treliac

dopester wrote: »

Have you been away trel? Know you've been around the last week or so, but before that.. unless I didn't read some threads, not seen many posts of yours.

Think you mean well in that post, and I agree with near all of it, but I'm a bit of a defender of individual rights.

In fact I think the New Labour socialist experiment to 'make things fair', has been dangerous meddling.

When individuals are encouraged to make sacrifices above and beyond towards any number of higher causes, or towards society itself, it can be very dangerous - but I don't think you were pushing towards that extreme.

Thanks dopester, it's nice to be noticed or noticeably not noticed (excuse my gibberish ).

I do mean well, at least I try to. And I'm not decrying individual rights until they take away from someone else's. In my mind New Labour's idea of making things fair has, in many instances, done just the opposite.

I agree that individuals shouldn't be expected to make sacrifices to 'higher causes.' After all human nature can't be ignored and we are programmed for self-interest and the survival of ourselves and nearest and dearest.

It's the collective responsibility we have to protect those who cannot protect themselves that I feel strongly about but this ripples out in waves, if you like, and we in this country can't be responsible for the whole world. We can only do the best we can in any situation and, naturally, that best could be something different for each of us.

Guess now I should lighten up a bit . BTW, I'm still around, don't intend going too far. But time isn't always plentiful for following the board closely. Family sometimes feel neglected if, when I'm not working, I spend too much time on the PC. It's too easy to put other things off too and they eventually catch up with me!!!