Fixed term coming to an end - options?

chewmylegoff

Hello all,

My fixed term tenancy is coming to an end in October. It was a 12 month AST, with a 6-month break clause requiring 2 months' notice.

The property was rented with the involvement of an agent - but they do not manage the property, the landlord manages the property. The letting agent collects the rent and passes it on to the landlord but have no other involvement.

We have recently had a letter from the letting agent, saying that we need to decide whether:

i) we want to extend for another fixed term, and if so how long.

or

ii) whether we want to give 2 months notice to quit at the end of the fixed term.

Obviously it excludes the third option of going on to a periodic tenancy, because the letting agent wants to get another contract fee. Rentals in this area have dropped £30-40pw since we signed the lease, and there are a number of similar flats on the market for less with the same agent at the moment. it seems to be taking about a month for the agent to shift flats that are up for rent in our price band.

We don't want to move, but we don't want to sign another 6 month term as we want to have more flexibility. We're happy to keep paying the same rent as now.

So:

i) Do we actually need to give notice to move out at the end of the fixed term? the agent says we need to give 2 months but it was my understanding that we can actually move out with no notice when the term expires. (We might want to do this if we come across a flat we like more in the next couple of months).

ii) What is the legal basis for a periodic tenancy. If our current contract requires 2 months' notice to be given, and we go on to a periodic tenancy, would it still be 2 months' notice - or is it enshrined in law that a periodic tenancy is 2 months' notice for the landlord and 1 month for the tenant. if so what is the legal basis for that.

iii) do we need to deal with the letting agent at all? before i got this letter i was just going to email or write to the landlord saying that we wanted to go on to a periodic tenancy at the end of the agreement. the agent's letter makes it clear that they have received no instructions from the landlord before writing to us. i suppose i could cc them in but they seem to not actually have any remit to talk to us.

tbs624

chewmylegoff wrote: »

i) Do we actually need to give notice to move out at the end of the fixed term? the agent says we need to give 2 months but it was my understanding that we can actually move out with no notice when the term expires. (We might want to do this if we come across a flat we like more in the next couple of months).

You don't need to give any notice to leave at the end of a Fixed Term. It's a courtesy to let the LL know and it tends to speed up the return of your deposit. However, the longer you give them the greater number of viewings they will try to impose on you. (Am assuming property is in E/Wales as you use the term AST rather than SAT (for Scotland, where doctrine of tacit relocation alters rules on giving notice)

chewmylegoff wrote: »

ii) What is the legal basis for a periodic tenancy. If our current contract requires 2 months' notice to be given, and we go on to a periodic tenancy, would it still be 2 months' notice - or is it enshrined in law that a periodic tenancy is 2 months' notice for the landlord and 1 month for the tenant. if so what is the legal basis for that.

A statutory periodic agreement arises at expiry of a Fixed Term under the Housing Act 1988, Ss5&6 - the terms from the previous fixed term tenancy agreement apply, save for "determination" and the notice is as you describe 2 from the LL, 1 from the T

chewmylegoff wrote: »

iii) do we need to deal with the letting agent at all? before i got this letter i was just going to email or write to the landlord saying that we wanted to go on to a periodic tenancy at the end of the agreement. the agent's letter makes it clear that they have received no instructions from the landlord before writing to us. i suppose i could cc them in but they seem to not actually have any remit to talk to us.

If you have the LLs contact info then talk to /write to him/her ( you are legally entitled to a name and address - LA has 21 days in which to give it to you after receiving a written request from you). LAs like to push the fixed term because, as you say, they can slap both LL&T for a renewals fee and also they have an idea of how much rental commission they are likely to make if you re-sign for another FT.

Do your homework on other rents/voids for similar properties in the area and remind the LL/LA what a marvellous T you have been.Good luck.

poppy10_2

chewmylegoff wrote: »

i) Do we actually need to give notice to move out at the end of the fixed term? No. The agent says we need to give 2 months but it was my understanding that we can actually move out with no notice when the term expires. The agent is wrong, you are right. But it is sensible to give them some notice of you moving out rather than simply disappearing on the last day, even though it is not a legal requirement.

ii) What is the legal basis for a periodic tenancy. If our current contract requires 2 months' notice to be given, and we go on to a periodic tenancy, would it still be 2 months' notice - or is it enshrined in law that a periodic tenancy is 2 months' notice for the landlord and 1 month for the tenant. if so what is the legal basis for that.
For periodic tenancy the statutory notice periods are 2 months for the landlord and one month/4 weeks for the tenant. That is indeed enshrined in law. Statute overrides contract law, whatever the contract says is irrelevant if you have automatically gone onto a statutory periodic tenancy.

As above
http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents/housing/pdf/138289.pdf
http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/notice_to_quit.htm

chewmylegoff

Thanks for the help given so far.

I wrote to the LL and asked if she was happy to progress to a statutory periodic tenancy.

She has replied and says it's fine, but can we agree that we will give 2 months' notice when we want to leave.

My understanding is that I could agree to this, but then leave at 1 months' notice as anything we agree between ourselves will not override statute.

However, I don't really want to do that, so I was going to send something along the following lines:

"In the event that we know that we want to move and are able to give 2 months notice we will endeavour to do so. However, the tenancy would be governed by the Housing Act 1988 and it is not possible to override its provisions by creating a side agreement between us. Therefore, in the eyes of the law, we would retain the right to leave at 1 months' notice and may choose to exercise this right if we need to."

Does that look ok? Can anyone suggest better wording - we're on good terms and I don't want to annoy.

I know I could agree to the 2 month thing and then honour it out of decency, but I don't want to have to give 2 months' notice to leave if I don't have to, particularly as there is currently an issue with the gas fire in the living room which hasn't been useable since February (despite us asking on several occassions for it to be fixed) and if it doesn't get fixed before Winter we will want to move before Christmas.

p.s. she has missed her deadline for s21ing me and therefore there will be at least 1 month of statutory periodic tenancy whatever happens (unless we leave at end of fixed term, which we will not)

franklee

chewmylegoff wrote: »

p.s. she has missed her deadline for s21ing me and therefore there will be at least 1 month of statutory periodic tenancy whatever happens (unless we leave at end of fixed term, which we will not)

There is no deadline for the LA/LL s21ing you if the S21 is served during the fixed term the notice just has to be at least two months, there is no requirement for it to end on any particular day. An S21 served after the fixed term needs to be at least two months but this has to end at the end of a period.

If you are on a statutory periodic tenancy (which arises if nothing is done) then the tenant's notice is at least one month to end at the end of a period.

But if you agree to a contractual periodic tenancy that specifies the tenant give two months notice then I think that is binding. So avoid a contractual periodic tenancy. To avoid doubt I would not agree to the two month thing on offer at all.

chewmylegoff

franklee wrote: »

There is no deadline for the LA/LL s21ing you if the S21 is served during the fixed term the notice just has to be at least two months, there is no requirement for it to end on any particular day. An S21 served after the fixed term needs to be at least two months but this has to end at the end of a period.

just to clarify, say my fixed term finishes on 30 September (and the rent day is last day of the month) - if i get a s21 notice on 15 August would I have to move out on 15 October, rather than 30 October? i.e. they don't have to serve it by the rent day for possession 2 rent days after that?

franklee

chewmylegoff wrote: »

just to clarify, say my fixed term finishes on 30 September (and the rent day is last day of the month) - if i get a s21 notice on 15 August would I have to move out on 15 October, rather than 30 October? i.e. they don't have to serve it by the rent day for possession 2 rent days after that?

If you are served an S21 during the fixed term it's just two months clear notice needed. As for the day they are requesting you leave you'd need to see what the notice says, it will say something along the lines of I require possession after 15th October, or whatever date.

In the above example if you were served notice on 15th August asking for possession after 15th October you would get two whole months notice from 16th August to 15th October inclusive. By served I mean arrives at your end, so either delivered in person on 15th or posted a few days before that to arrive at the latest on the 15th.

Also they need to serve the right S21.

Served during fixed term it's a section 21(1)(b).

Served after the fixed term it's a section 21(4)a. This is the one that needs to end at the end of a period.

In either case you don't have to move out if you don't want to. If so the landlord would need to action the notice if he wants you gone. Staying on past expiry of the notice may spoil the reference they are prepared to give you, but if they really want you gone it would be silly to make it harder. I would not recommend staying long enough for court in less you haven't managed to find anywhere else and need more time.

Really if you are a good tenant I don't see they would serve you notice for asking for a statuary periodic tenancy as after all they do not know how long you will be staying. It could be a while and the less changes of tenants the less risk of getting a bad one and the less time the property is empty.