Buying a derelict property blog

hillwalker2004

Fire_Fox wrote: »

Your first issue is going to be road access, as if you can't get to the properties you won't get planinng permission. Services such as electricity and water are less of an issue as they can be installed ... for a price (high). As soon as the places get planning permission they will become MUCH more valuable and you may be priced out of the market.

Both are within 5 metres of the road with enough space to the side to make a driveway. I think you have hit the nail on the head re pp - I know that no application has been made for pp from the search I've done (not even an application that has been rejected). The location is just too good for no one to have done anything for so long so I'm guessing that the problem will be that there is no registered owner! fingers crossed!

lincroft1710

Have come across several rural properties in similar and more remote locations. Virtually all belonged to farms who did not need them anymore, or were uneconomic to maintain or had serious structural problems. However they did not want to sell them and did not want them occupied by anyone other than family/employee.

hillwalker2004

Well yesterday we decided to submit the Land Registry Requests which cost £4-5 each. As there is no known address for either site we have done what is effectively a map search (called a SIM search). I believe this is then manually correlated by Land Registry to any details they hold. If they come back with anything then we have to make a further request for title details.

I did do a quick free online LR search and it came back with no details held so I am not holding my breath when the official requests come back. I've been told that I should find out by the end of the week

I have also done a 1911 census search which was frankly, useless. Every single entry just has the address of the village name and nothing else so it could be any one of about 26 entries or none of them at all. Well that was £25 down the drain! :mad:

Now thinking that electoral roll might be a better avenue but not sure what details I need to be armed with or what I could glean from it and how far back/recent the information is.

mynameisdave

hillwalker2004 wrote: »

The location is just too good for no one to have done anything for so long so I'm guessing that the problem will be that there is no registered owner! fingers crossed!

I'm quite ignorant on these tings but wouldn't that be a pretty big stumbling block?

hillwalker2004

mynameisdave wrote: »

I'm quite ignorant on these tings but wouldn't that be a pretty big stumbling block?

Fairly big stumbling block or at least non conventional. In fact over 40% of all properties in the UK are not registered with Land Registry. Someone always will own the land, but often its not clear who and depends whether the deeds survive. Makes it all the more important never to lose track of your deeds as otherwise makes it very difficult to sell your property at a later date!

Fire_Fox

hillwalker2004 wrote: »

Both are within 5 metres of the road with enough space to the side to make a driveway. I think you have hit the nail on the head re pp - I know that no application has been made for pp from the search I've done (not even an application that has been rejected). The location is just too good for no one to have done anything for so long so I'm guessing that the problem will be that there is no registered owner! fingers crossed!

I still think access is an issue. It will cost you a lot of money to put a small bit of road in, and you will need the council permission to have in join up with the existing road.

Someone will own the land, especially if it is currently farmed. I think this is the avenue to pursue, as the buildings are probably not registered as dwellings you may need to start from scratch with planning.

I sound like I am being really negative - sorry! I actually think what you are doing is really exciting, and something I have mulled over myself. :T

planning_officer

Also bear in mind, from a planning point of view - depending on how long they have been empty and what state of dereliction they are in, the previous residential use may be considered to be 'abandoned' (that's a proper planning concept!). In which case, the lawful use may only be for agriculture and there may be no chance of getting planning permission to rebuild the dwellings (as any such application would be regarded in the same way as a completely new dwelling in the open countryside and unlikely to be permitted - if the residential use of the site(s)has been abandoned).

Doozergirl

hillwalker2004 wrote: »

My other half who has a farming background thinks what is likely is that the previous farm (certainly in the cas of the second property) probably died and had no descendants or was possibly made bankrupt.

Quite a romantic concept but the Crown gets the estate someone that dies intestate without family. Also, as far as I am aware, bankcruptcy doesn't mean losing your family home either.

My experience of chasing rural properties like these has indeed been that they belong to farms that have no need for them, but refuse to sell. Most of these people aren't dim, it would be quite hard to buy a property and flip it for a profit, especailly as you are saying that your purchse would be dependant upon PP - you're mitigating your risk and therefore increasing the property value before you have bought it. A property left like that tends to belong to people that can afford to, and are willing to have these things sitting around.

Agree with planning officer that they are often registered as 'abandoned' - if it's in greenbelt, you're stuck.

hillwalker2004

Thanks for the last couple of replies!

Well the latest development is that the SIM search at the Land Registry drew a blank so basically means they are unregistered which is not exactly surprising. Think the next step is to ask the neighbours whether they know who owns the properties as its likely someone knows something or even owns it!

Re: Planning Permission I understand what you say about the properties being abandoned and I dont think there is any doubt about that and yes both properties would be in the green belt. That said, what would be more desirable 2 properties that are an eye sore, one of which has been vandalised? However I know the law is an !!! some times!

On a seperate note I have been fighting the council on a development next door to me so I know how most of the machinations work by now! On the first planning application several years ago the council did not sendany letters to the neighbours so the plans were pretty much automatically passed as there were no objections. An unrelated application on the same site then had the letters send to the residents on the wrong side of the road. Anyway the most recent application was a renewal of the first application that had expired and we all objected to it. Anyway without going into detail the application got passed.

Since the development has been built our property effectively becomes a soakaway as it drains into our back garden but apparantly this is not a 'material' planning consideration so we can do nothing about it. The plans also stated a building condition that they may not start building until materials have been approved by the council and are in the same form and texture as the existing building that is brick and concrete tiles. Anyway the applicants ignored this and started anyway building a covered way out of grey metal posts and glazed the top of it. I asked the council where else on the property does these structures already exist to meet the condition and there response was that its not relevant as no covered way exists elsewhere around the property. So I said to them that the condition they have applied is effectively pointless if it has no basis. I also asked for information under the Environmental Information Regulations and the Senior Planning Officer for the city council had never heard of it which frankly amazes me! Anyway, back to the original post...!

g_attrill

I am betting that people at the nearest pub or large house will know who owns it.

My bet is that it's owned by a farming family and they won't be interested in selling them at any sensible price, but of course you won't know unless you ask.

It's possible that it would be overall better (in terms of property value) to knock them down and rebuild. I believe it's a common trick to get permission to extend/renovate and then unfortunately part of the structure "collapses" during the works and permission to build from scratch is requested.