Grade ii Listed flat - same price as homes in area - does it make sense?

Made_Without

Hi This is going to be a bit of a ramble so I apologise from the start!

I'e been looking to buy a place for a fair few months now; mainly small houses as I always used to be of the mindset that, spending all that money I would rather own something freehold rather than leasehold flat.

Thing is, none of the homes were that close to the station. Then like buses this weekend... I see three nice properties

1. Property 1 - flat - walking distance to tube station - within budget without making a lower offer.
+
Graded / listed builidng - unique looking
125 year new lease
-
On a main road
needs some updating
wouldnt be able to change a lot interior / exterior (but not that big an issue as its nice)


2. Property 2 - semi - about 1/2 hour walk to tube station - above budget but can prob offer to my upper limit.
+
doesnt need any further work
freehold
-
Bathroom has no window
B road

3. Property 3 - semi, (not my preffered area - about 45 mins walk from it). Just above budget so likely to accept an offer lower than my limit
+
doesnt need any further work
freehold
10 minutes walk to overground train station.
-
Not my preferred area
Looks like an industrial estate / storage units on the streets nearby.


so I guess the bottomline is
I like the flat a lot BUT it seems odd to spend as much on a flat as a on a house.
I'm not convinved distance to station and the fact its listed are enough to hike up its price.

-Has anyone any advice on buying a grade 2 listed building?
I suspect upkeep costs would be pricely in order to ensure its appearance remains 'just so'.

- The flat was reduced by 40k after a month - so how much more can i push my offer?
The estate agent mentioned that the vendor may consider an offer 15k less
but my friend(who doesnt know price) is suggesting that should go for atleast 10% off asking price.
I've looked at flats on the same road (they are further up the road / further from the station) and they seem to be selling for almost 100k less than the current asking price for the one i like
- these flats are in a well mainitained listed block too. the walk to station is greater, but its still the same road. The only other noticeable differences are that these flats are in a larger block (the one i like is a house converted into 2) and that they have a steep service charge of 2.5k a year.

Weighing all this up, the price of the flat is very expensive despite its uniqueness. (Zooplaestimate range is 84k - 58k lower than is being asked!)

Would making an offer more fitting with the estimate and the price of other properties in the area be worthwhile?

C*F

Grovester_2

I live in a grade 2 listed flat.

It's a nightmare. First off find out when it was converted in to a flat as if not recently there will be little in the way of sound proofing!

When things need replacing it's expensive as it's listed. We also found that the management co drag there feet as it requires more work than a normal flat so lots of things are 'outstanding'.

On the plus side we have a 1600+ sq ft flat which would cost mega money in a modern block.

Ignore zoopla, apparantly all the flats in our block are worth the same despite some being 1 bed and others being 4 bed.

Check sold prices if none the only wya to be sure is to get a survey/valuation.

Fire_Fox

My parents live in flat in a listed building and for a good while my father was on the board of directors. One of my colleagues from the residents association lives in a flat in another listed building and again is on the board. Both pay less than I do in service charges! If you are willing to do your homework and keep an eye on the managing agents, getting them replaced if necessary, a listed building isn't a problem.

You do need to find out what has and has not been done as part of the conversion - when were the windows last stripped down and repainted, and when was the roof last replaced (not repaired)? If there is a lift is it fairly new? Is there a sinking fund?

A very thorough explanation of service charges and associated legislation:
http://www.lease-advice.org/publications/documents/document.asp?item=14

There's no way I'd buy property two: do you really want to walk half an hour to the station when it's pouring with rain or snowing in your face? Industrial estates are not necessarily bad as you are unlikely to have a lot more residential development take place in the area. What is the view like? Do any of the properties have the potential to let a room if money gets tight?

Emmylou_2

We live in the top floor flat in a grade 2 listed georgian townhouse. Our roof started leaking on NYD 2007 . We told the landlord's agent (our landlord lives in Dubai) the same day. In the end, it took 18 months of wrangling (our landlord was arguing with the other leaseholders in the building that this was necessary, they said that repairs could wait a further two years :eek: until it was the scheduled time for maintenance - I don't think so :mad:).

The roof had to be totally replaced, using the same materials as original, so actual slate tiles, and instead of costing about £3k, it cost about £22k :eek:

Also, we have gorgeous sash windows. Except in winter, of course, they're not so gorgeous when (because NOTHING is square in this flat) the wind blows right on in.

We're looking to buy now. And I would rather live in a new build than a listed building. And I REALLY don't want to live in a new build...

Fire_Fox

There should have been no need for that wrangling, it's possible to go to a Leasehold Valuation Tribunal to dispense with the consultation process in cases of emergency. I would say a leaking roof damaging a listed property could be deemed urgent. The cost of replacing the roof is why I'd want to know if there was a sinking fund - tho some planners will allow composite 'slate' tiles which are much cheaper than reclaimed or new slate. Sash windows can be renovated so that they are air-tight but it takes a expert.

I,_Geek

On the Leasehold/Freehold issue:

You might want to check who owns the freehold on any flat you're interested in. For example, my flat is on the market and described as Leasehold. BUT the Management Company owns the Freehold for the whole building. And the Management Company is made up of one owner from each flat so my OH effectively owns a part of the Freehold, too.

After hearing about problems with Management Companies I'm glad my building does everything on its own.

daveb975

In terms of flat vs house, it is a decision that only you can make, but I am not surprised that a flat in a convenient location is as expensive as a house in a less convenient one.

In my area, there is a massive difference in price between houses and flats - a Victorian terraced house in a good location might be 50% more expensive than a larger flat next door to it. However, the flat would still be more expensive than a house in a less convenient location.

The possible advantage of a flat in a listed house is that it is likely to be much larger than a purpose built flat, but the disadvantage could be neighbour noise if the conversion has not been done very well.

I'd advise against buying a house that is 30 minutes walk from the nearest station if you are going to be commuting every day. It will be hell in the winter, and add too much time to your working day. These houses are fine for retired people and those who drive to work, but no good for commuters.

Chinkle

The flat does sound nice and it may attract a premium due to its character. I don't think it's sensible to compare the prices on what sounds like very different properties. If you like the flat do some research on recent sold prices, find out more about who owns the lease/what the annual service charges, are there any big works schedules for the immediate future etc then you will be in a better position to make a decision.

Made_Without

Thanks to all of you who not only read but took the time to reply.

So today I put in an offer <<gulp>> 15% less than the asking price.

The EA asked me why this was the case
I replied that
I had taken into consideration the fact that it was unique (grade 2 listed etc) but that othr flats on the road were significantly cheaper (in some cases approx 100k less). Also, that prices still seemed to be unsteady and declining.

He replied that the flat had already been reduced by the vendor (by approx 10%)
It had been on the market for a month before they made the reduction. He didnt sound very optimistic about the offer being accepted

Its gone 5pm and I havent heard back and also the vendor is abroad so I know they are not the easiest to get hold of - but I am going to be restless until Monday and then I dread it not being a positive

C*F

Fire_Fox

First offers are rarely accepted: it's irrelevant what the vendor has already reduced it by, that's just to push your offer up! Are you willing to increase? Put your best and final offer into writing, stating the terms (off the market, subject to valuation/ survey), your strong position as a buyer (??no chain, mortgage in principle) and the market conditions in the area. Do not be rushed into making this second offer, wait a few days after your first is refused. Good luck!!

Grovester_2

Yeah I hate it when they say it's already been reduced. Frankly I don't care what it was, I care what it is now. It's like when buying a used car and 'save' thousands off the new price, er no a new car is worth more than a used one!

Anyway back to your offer, you shouldn't really have to justify it to the EA. If comaparable properties are closer to your offer then that should do. Again personally if someone offered me less for mine based on possible price falls I'd ask for a clause in the contract to state if the peoperty gains in value then I'd need some more cash in x years time. Basically you want the vendor to cover your liabilty for falls but not if the property value increases. It's a personal thing, I would be annoyed but, of course if you just said 'cos that's all I want to pay then I'd be less annoyed.