A chance for all bankrupts to change your life - Your help needed!

alastairq

And this is why the ceaseless work of people like CitySlicker is so important......bringing about real change in attitudes?

freddy911

Definatly, we need to make our cause heard. As soon as ive actually done the dead I will be writing to my MP.

4$£&*(£$&*(!

alastairq wrote: »

Thanks once again........I think the worm is turning?

I suspect that, if using a Price Comparison site, withholding the BR information will provide the competitive quotes...simply phone the relevant insurers or brokers, and provide them direct with any BR information necessary?

A bit long-winded, I know.......and obviously not within the Price Comparisons' sites business model....but who cares?

Yes this is what I've resorted to do. Lie about the bankruptcy question when the comparison sites ask, follow Martin's guide to get cheap quotes, then phone through the cheapest until you find one who covers you.

As you rightly point out this isn't in the comparison websites business model so they are *losing* money because we are then going straight to the insurers rather than through the comparison sites. So the likes of Confused.com and GoCompare.com who I have had specific discussions about this are going to lose, and it seems they're mad not trying to resolve this.

So we have a sort of ineloquent solution temporarily, but I would like to have a permanent fix rather than a sticking plaster approach. I certainly get the feeling too the tide is turning on this specific issue and events could overtake things if I can push the ABI to rectify the situation.

now

Just a thought but maybe some of the high profile BRs with a bit of clout might just help the tide to turn. EU court of human rights is worth a bash after all child molesters get their identity protected, a new name and a new start so why shouldn't we? If we had committed a crime like baby P's parents we would be offered all sorts..........its a mad world, most BR'S WILL NEVER GET BACK INTO THE STATE THEY WERE IN SO WHY SHOULD WE BE TREATED LIKE THIS?

4$£&*(£$&*(!

I have already tried that route. None of the high profile people were interested. Neil Hamilton in fairness did reply to say he had never had an issue, but how many people who quickly get back to a reasonable income are that bothered about what must seem like a minor inconvenience to them?

I think the best way of changing things is to keep collecting evidence and present it all to the ABI to show there is a pressing need for a policy change.

4$£&*(£$&*(!

I am chasing a few companies who have not sent any response to me reminding them I mean business and will refer the case to the Ombudsman if they haven't responded within eight weeks.

Here is the email:

I am awaiting a response on the letter I sent to you just under four weeks ago. I am sure you are aware the Ombudsman allows eight weeks for companies to investigate complaints; ideally I am looking to avoid an Ombudsman referral if possible but I will reluctantly take this step if I do not receive any response.

Please accept my apologies if you are already in the process of responding.

This has been sent to:

Kwik Fit Insurance
Direct Choice
Bedford Insurance
Quoteline Direct
Masterquote Direct
onequote direct
Pearl
MORE TH>N
Brokerking
eHome Insurance
Jukes Insurance
Thamesbank Insurance
Sureterm
Dial Direct
ibuyeco
Insure
Ascot Underwriting Ltd

All this information is nicely building a portfolio to pass to the ABI for their review also.

4$£&*(£$&*(!

Jukes Insurance say:

Thanks for your Email. Unforunately I have no record of a previous Email, and have not received a hard copy in the post, and have therefore had no chance to respond before!

GoCompare is one of the sources we use for new enquiries, and the business generated from this forms a very small part of our overall business. Any comparison site will have to use a set of generic questions, which have have been agreed with insurers. Our own quote system will still have some generic questions, but we can then go further into the results individually. If we ran through a quote with the information you have given, our system would show results from insurers as either "decline" or "refer". We would then have to ring through to a refer quote and provide further details such as you have given, and see if we can obtain a competitive quote. We are not able therefore to provide a quote back to GoCompare in time, as this process could take a couple of days! I do not believe that comparison sites are suitable for everyone, and that more complicated cases are better being referred to a broker.

Sorry if this is not the answer that you wanted, but hope it will help to explain how the "system" works. I cannot answer for insurers, as it is up to their management and underwriters, and it may be that they agree individual terms with brokers who specialise in niche areas, but at the present time that does no include us!


My reply:

Thank you for your response. I am uncertain why you did not receive the original correspondence, I have confirmation it was sent.

That aside, you acknowledge your response may not be what I hoped for. In truth that is quite correct, and I am collating responses from a number of organisations to investigate further with the ABI into how this area is handled. I appreciate and understand how your system works and how price comparison sites fit into this.

Following my raising of this point, a number of other insurers, brokers and underwriters have agreed they need to review their policies in how they deal with bankruptcy. So far the vast majority of intermediaries I have dealt with advise me bankruptcy is usually not a problem beyond two years. Many of these are in the process of reworking their websites appropriately.

To put this into context, if I wish to compare the same number of quotes that a price comparison site would return if bankruptcy is not factored, it would take me around three days to make telephone calls. Given the impression other organisations are providing, this is wholly unnecessary and anti-competitive. I would far sooner organisations work to decide when the issue of bankruptcy ceases to be an issue, agree terms of reference with price comparison sites, then implement this in order to provide a fair and level playing field.

I am in discussions with Otto Thoresen, Director General at the ABI, who is investigating this area and he hopes to draw research to a conclusion in the autumn. I will be providing all my findings to Mr Thoresen and, where appropriate, the Ombudsman. Can I therefore ask if your response below is your final position, or if you will be investigating further?

4$£&*(£$&*(!

Kwik Fit say:

I am writing in response to your recent email we have received from you unfortunately in this email you have not provided use with a contact telephone number, postcode or Quote reference.

Please give our customer care team a call on 0800 027 66 46 and select option 3 and we will be happy to help you.


I say:

I have no quote reference as when I used the comparison site you refused to provide a quote once I advised a person in the household had been declared bankrupt. All this information was in the original email I sent you, and also in the email attachment I sent along with yesterday's email. My full address including postcode was also on my letter. I have not included my telephone number as I am in discussions with the ABI on this matter and require a written reply as this is being collated for provision to the Director General's office (Otto Thoresen).

I would appreciate you re-investigating.


Quoteline Direct say their senior management are investigating and will reply as soon as they can; the person who has been investigating is on annual leave until 8 August.

Confused.com say they are considering my further comments and will be in touch shortly.

4$£&*(£$&*(!

Thamesbank say:

I am in receipt of your recent letter regarding bankruptcy and note your comments.

Insurance companies have varying levels of acceptability on a number of rating factors including claims, convictions, proximity to water, occupation etc and we as insurance brokers have facilities with most of the market.

In view of this wide range we cannot give you a blanket answer on the question of how bankruptcy is viewed. I note you are in contact with the ABI who will be able to give you more information in this regard.

I would advise that price comparison sites are designed, in the main, to handle high volumes of standard business only. Although I am sure that at some stage in the future this may change as the sites become more sophisticated and are able to handle more complex risk variations.

However until this happens I can only suggest that any risk falling outside of a standard profile is referred directly to a brokers office who could approach a variety of underwriters on a more specific basis.

With regard to the generic questions asked on these sites, this is a matter for each site to address especially if there is a breach in the Data protection Act as you have suggested. I assume you have raised this issue with the individual sites concerned.

Notwithstanding the above If you would like our office to see if we can provide a quotation for you from our panel of insurers on a referall basis, please contact myself and I will make arrangements for one of our household team to contact you.


Although not a solution, they do highlight some good points so I think this will be useful to point out when I compile my final briefing for the ABI.

4$£&*(£$&*(!

Jukes response:

The response I have given is my current position, which is really dictated by what insurers' want, and the question set provided by GoCompare. Some insurers will not allow us to use their rates on internet sites, as they believe that they get inferior results from this source, and we are constantly reviewing the panel of insurers that we have for GoCompare. The present question on GoCompare only asks if anyone has "ever" been bankrupt, so this does not allow any filtering for the length of time discharged etc. "If" this is modified "and" we find an insurer who is willing to quote online for this then we will be able to quote, and we will keep this under review. It may be that the ABI can give guidance to insurers on this, and that this may then be passed down to us brokers from the insurers or our own trade body (BIBA). However, my personal opinion is that in most instances it would be better to deal through a broker, who may be able to obtain better terms with insurers by explaining not only the date of bankruptcy, but also the circumstances. However good the question set is for a comparison site, the relationship between client, broker, and insurer still has relevance for any cases that are not absolutely straightforward.

Sorry for the brief reply, but just about to go on holiday, and keen to get all queries answered.


I am a bit disappointed that the reply was clearly done on the rush as someone was clearing their desk; however their response isn't totally unhelpful. This indicates there is a willingness for the intermediaries to support the price comparison sites if the sites change their approach.