Buying fur/animal skins second hand

AbFab

Sorry I am a little late to this thread, but if the OP is still after opinions, I felt I had this new one to add:

By not buying the item, you perhaps left it for someone else to buy who had they NOT bought this antique item, would have contributed to the vile animal skins industry by buying something similar new, thus perpetuating the demand for the supply and directly causing the suffering and needless death of a beautiful innocent creature.

That’s the main point I wanted to make about why if you have morals and a conscience about animal issues you should still avoid second-hand leather/fur etc.

I can’t always tell the difference between real fur and faux at a glance, but if I know it’s real, I could not bear to touch it. I can’t think of any of my friends that would wear real fur, thank goodness. It makes my skin crawl. Same goes for leather/suede – especially new leather/suede – it has that vile ‘skin/flesh’ smell, isn’t particularly attractive and there are heaps of alternatives. I haven’t bought a leather/suede/fur/silk/wool item in over ten years. You absolutely can make a difference, and choose to support only ethical suppliers. If it costs a tiny bit more (and invariably it DOESN’T, as leather seems to attract a high price tag) then it’s a price I am willing to pay, for the sake of my conscience, and the sake of the animals, and the environment.

WolfSong2000

I have little problem with fur as long as you're not just buying it purely as a fashion accessory. In very cold climates, fur is excellent at keeping you warm and I'd have no qualms about wearing it, but just as a fashion statement? Still, we use leather a lot, so maybe I'm a hypocrite. I'd also be very careful about where I sourced fur from - China is a *big* no-no for me purely because of the way they treat the animals.

As for animal skins for bags, etc, I own leather bags, so again can't really complain but not really as big of a fan...there's no real reason to use leather (with fur, it's fabby for keeping warm). Having said that I had a python handbag and purse bought for me as a christmas present last year by my father...pretty sure it's from Sudan. Also have an antique tribal shield from the same region made from Hippo. Didn't ask for either, and am not quite sure what to do with the shield (or even how he got it into the country as it's not small), but the bag and purse get used occasionally...don't use them all that often though, out of personal choice.

Along the same vein, I remember being in a leather shop on the coast in California (San Diego)...walking into this dark dingy shop from the sunshine was a bit of a shock...leather everywhere, dusty floors, etc. There's a woman at the counter, and from the back of the shop steps a younger man who yells at the woman "ma - I got them rattlers out the freezer for ya". in a real redneck accent. (Rattlers being rattle snakes, btw)...apparently they put them in the freezer before they skin them...who knew? Got a nice hand finished leather belt from them...didn't involve anything reptilian, though. lol.

GrammarGirl

AbFab wrote: »

Sorry I am a little late to this thread, but if the OP is still after opinions, I felt I had this new one to add:

By not buying the item, you perhaps left it for someone else to buy who had they NOT bought this antique item, would have contributed to the vile animal skins industry by buying something similar new, thus perpetuating the demand for the supply and directly causing the suffering and needless death of a beautiful innocent creature.

That’s the main point I wanted to make about why if you have morals and a conscience about animal issues you should still avoid second-hand leather/fur etc.

I can’t always tell the difference between real fur and faux at a glance, but if I know it’s real, I could not bear to touch it. I can’t think of any of my friends that would wear real fur, thank goodness. It makes my skin crawl. Same goes for leather/suede – especially new leather/suede – it has that vile ‘skin/flesh’ smell, isn’t particularly attractive and there are heaps of alternatives. I haven’t bought a leather/suede/fur/silk/wool item in over ten years. You absolutely can make a difference, and choose to support only ethical suppliers. If it costs a tiny bit more (and invariably it DOESN’T, as leather seems to attract a high price tag) then it’s a price I am willing to pay, for the sake of my conscience, and the sake of the animals, and the environment.

There are many alternatives but with things like silk and wool, you just won't get the same quality from man made fibres as you would with the real thing. A pure wool jumper is a joy to own and will last years beyond an acrylic version. Also, I honestly cannot see the harm in buying wool. Shearing sheep is a traditional aspect of farming and a livelihood for lots! I went into my local wool shop at the weekend and there's nothing cruel about it, in my opinion.

I'm glad this thread has resurfaced. I find the debate fascinating. I wonder, then, if having a conscience about animal issues means you shouldn't eat meat either?

AbFab

I am not necessarily talking about life in countries where they don't have the advantages and options that we do. Do WE need to wear fur here? No we don't. If my life depended on it, I'd wear a fur, and I would be grateful every moment for the animal it came from. I don't really think the Inuits are as remote as all that anyway, and it is a choice to continue to live that lifestyle. I can't really imagine there are many places left were humans are solely reliant on animal fur to keep warm, but those that are, surely don't exploit the animals any more than they have to.

As for snakes, that's a damn cruel industry too.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2007/oct/03/fashion.animalwelfare

There are plenty of fantastic alternatives to wool and silk, and I do not feel like I am missing out at all. I personally don't find silk pleasant; it rubs up funny, and as for wool, even the posh stuff, it's itchy, nasty stuff. I have all non-animal alternatives and I don't get cold in the winter. They can make some awesome stuff now, without exploiting animals.
Just because something is traditional, or goes back hundreds of years, doesn't mean it should carry on. Human slavery was traditional, people made their living from human slavery!

There is actually ample information available that tells us that the wool industry isn't all lovely and fluffy by any stretch of the imagination. Maybe some sheep are treated ok, but personally, I still think we should leave them to their own devices. That aside, here are some links about the nasty side of wool-farming:
http://www.savethesheep.com/ and http://www.peta.org/MC/factsheet_display.asp?ID=55, for example.

And no, I don't eat meat (or dairy, or anything, in fact, that comes from an animal).

GrammarGirl

AbFab wrote: »

I am not necessarily talking about life in countries where they don't have the advantages and options that we do. Do WE need to wear fur here? No we don't. If my life depended on it, I'd wear a fur, and I would be grateful every moment for the animal it came from. I don't really think the Inuits are as remote as all that anyway, and it is a choice to continue to live that lifestyle. I can't really imagine there are many places left were humans are solely reliant on animal fur to keep warm, but those that are, surely don't exploit the animals any more than they have to.

As for snakes, that's a damn cruel industry too.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2007/oct/03/fashion.animalwelfare

There are plenty of fantastic alternatives to wool and silk, and I do not feel like I am missing out at all. I personally don't find silk pleasant; it rubs up funny, and as for wool, even the posh stuff, it's itchy, nasty stuff. I have all non-animal alternatives and I don't get cold in the winter. They can make some awesome stuff now, without exploiting animals.
Just because something is traditional, or goes back hundreds of years, doesn't mean it should carry on. Human slavery was traditional, people made their living from human slavery!

There is actually ample information available that tells us that the wool industry isn't all lovely and fluffy by any stretch of the imagination. Maybe some sheep are treated ok, but personally, I still think we should leave them to their own devices. That aside, here are some links about the nasty side of wool-farming:
http://www.savethesheep.com/ and http://www.peta.org/MC/factsheet_display.asp?ID=55, for example.

And no, I don't eat meat (or dairy, or anything, in fact, that comes from an animal).

I wouldn't wear fur and I wouldn't buy reptile skin, but I do eat meat, and I wear leather, silk, suede and wool. I do care about animals - I don't agree with the fur trade, or animal testing and I'd never be cruel to a living thing. I think this is the stance most people take. I won't be made to feel bad for my choices.

AbFab

GrammarGirl wrote: »

I wouldn't wear fur and I wouldn't buy reptile skin, but I do eat meat, and I wear leather, silk, suede and wool. I do care about animals - I don't agree with the fur trade, or animal testing and I'd never be cruel to a living thing. I think this is the stance most people take. I won't be made to feel bad for my choices.

My intention wasn't to make you feel bad. More, to just point out how incongruous it is to state you care about animals, and then go on to eat meat, wear leather/suede/wool etc, when I have explained clearly how contributing to these practices/industries causes the suffering and death of the animals you claim to care for.
The fur trade is no different to the leather trade - it simply seems worse because people care more about cute fluffy animals than they do big hulking cows. Leather is so mainstream, and people seem not to equate it with the same suffering and death they do the fur trade. Yet how can it be any different? It is still an animal's skin. Someone else already pointed out that leather is not the by-product of the meat industry people like to claim it is. Sure, some is, but by no means all. The 'quality' leather comes from a different beast to the one the meat comes from. Even if it is a by-product, the meat industry itself is a cruel, unnecessary one.

Those are the facts. If you want to carry on contributing to the cruelty, that is your prerogative. Make no mistake - you ARE being "cruel to a living thing" - maybe you aren't the one to slit its throat, but by buying meat, you are sanctioning that to happen. It's just that someone else is doing your dirty work for you.

That "this is the stance most people take" in no way makes it right! When slavery was rife, the stance most white people took was that it was right! Thank goodness for a few forward-thinking people who challenged those ideas.

You wanted opinions and debate - I was just contributing as requested. If you don't like what I have to say, there's not a lot I can do about that - I am merely presenting the reality.

BitterAndTwisted

I'd buy a second-hand crocodile handbag or a fur coat in the blinking of an eye but I choose not to only for fear of being abused by strangers in the street. Everyone's entitled to their opinion but they are certainly not entitled to abuse people they don't know for reasons they don't know or even care about. I say, to hell with them!

I ate in a vegan restuarant yesterday evening and went there wearing a leather jacket and shoes (not premeditated) and I doubt anyone even noticed and certainly no-one mentioned it and that's the way it should be.

MizB

I have 4 fur coats that have been in my family for generations, the earliest is from the 1920's, the newest was bought in the 70's by my mum. I wear them all each winter, without a qualm. The animals which were shot to make 3 of the coats were dead long before I was born, and all the animals were wild, not farmed, so they had a normal life prior to death. To kill a wild animal for fur the skin should not be damaged, so the hunters in the old days were expert shots.

I know I'm going to get a blasting, but IMO if its vintage and you love it then wear it. I would not buy modern furs, though, as the fur nowadays is mostly farmed, as the animals have a rotten life

BitterAndTwisted

My own personal feeling is that the issue of wearing fur, rather than leather or suede for instance is driven by class rather than anything else. Otherwise leather-jacket wearers would be threatened and abused in public by all those militant PETA supporters and their vegan ilk

GrammarGirl

AbFab wrote: »

My intention wasn't to make you feel bad. More, to just point out how incongruous it is to state you care about animals, and then go on to eat meat, wear leather/suede/wool etc, when I have explained clearly how contributing to these practices/industries causes the suffering and death of the animals you claim to care for.
The fur trade is no different to the leather trade - it simply seems worse because people care more about cute fluffy animals than they do big hulking cows. Leather is so mainstream, and people seem not to equate it with the same suffering and death they do the fur trade. Yet how can it be any different? It is still an animal's skin. Someone else already pointed out that leather is not the by-product of the meat industry people like to claim it is. Sure, some is, but by no means all. The 'quality' leather comes from a different beast to the one the meat comes from. Even if it is a by-product, the meat industry itself is a cruel, unnecessary one.

Those are the facts. If you want to carry on contributing to the cruelty, that is your prerogative. Make no mistake - you ARE being "cruel to a living thing" - maybe you aren't the one to slit its throat, but by buying meat, you are sanctioning that to happen. It's just that someone else is doing your dirty work for you.

That "this is the stance most people take" in no way makes it right! When slavery was rife, the stance most white people took was that it was right! Thank goodness for a few forward-thinking people who challenged those ideas.

You wanted opinions and debate - I was just contributing as requested. If you don't like what I have to say, there's not a lot I can do about that - I am merely presenting the reality.

So if your intention is not to make me feel bad, why post this? Telling me I'm contributing to animal cruelty, that someone else is doing MY dirty work, comparing it to slavery... all that makes me feel rather bad for the suede boots I'm wearing today.

I didn't once say that just because lots of people do it, it's okay - I was simply pointing out that I think many, many people share my views. Lots of people are racist, I don't agree with that.

You have an opinion, you've stated it. No need to start personally blaming people for cruelty towards animals. That's not what this debate was about at all, and I certainly didn't ask for this kind of sly abuse. My original discussion was about second hand skins and what people feel about them. I didn't ask to be lambasted for wearing a leather jacket and enjoying a steak.