Criminal record for train fare evasion??

dzug1

finnis wrote: »

Someone I know had a criminal record for the same offence. Your record will be expunged after 5 years. The individual I know was granted an electronic visa to go to Australia but phoned the embassy for advice and ended up getting a conventional visa to be on the safe side. Wasn't a problem and gave them peace of mind in advance of their holiday.

And, no, it wasn't me. And no jokes about Australia and criminal records, please

Australia is not America - they have different rules.

In US eyes your record is not expunged after 5 years - it never is.

Embassies will always tell you to get a visa, whether you need one or not. It's the safest way for them to avoid giving misleading information on the phone to someone who - deliberately or inadvertently - may be giving incomplete or false information.

Quentin

To chance going without a "proper" visa in view of the record is a gamble - the stake your holiday cost, as if you get turned back at the airport then you couldn't possibly make any insurance claim over this.

And your travel companions would haqve to decide whether to lose their holiday or go without you.

dacouch

You can normally find out about your own criminal record by speaking to the Police Force covering the area of the offence. If you go to their website and find the contact details for their data protectionn officer. They will normally advise you of your criminal record after performing security checks to confirm your identity

iolanthe07

I have travelled to the US every year for ten years, and lived there for five years before that, and have travelled on a Visa, Visa Waiver, and Green Card. You really don't want to mess with the US Immigration authorities, who are very strict. If it was me I would go to the Embassy (or Consulate) and apply in person for a visa; at least if you are refused you will know where you are. If you go through on visa waiver you will likely be nervous, and the immigration officers are very skilled at spotting anyone who has something to hide. Of course, it's your call whether to chance it or not. Evading a train fare is a very minor offence, but it might well be construed as 'criminal' by some people. If you do attend at the Embassy you will be given an appointment time, but dozens of other people will be given the same time, so you need to allow a whole day. Good luck with this.

byb3

I get on the train nearly everyday without a ticket, if I get asked I just buy one, did they not offer you this or did you not have the money at the time?

Seems like a whole lot of hassle over a train ticket.

Davidp77

Hi,

Many thanks for the replies.

No unfortunately i was not asked to either pay for a ticket or pay the penalty fare of £20. I was caught without a ticket as I tried to leave the station. The reason I didn't have a ticket was because I was in a mess financially at the time and took a chance but have been punished for it. I know it was a stupid mistake but I had been buying tickets every day and due to being a bit stuck I started to not buy a ticket and thought I would be able to just buy one if i get asked. Something obviously which I have learnt from and won't be doing again.

I have researched this quite a bit and people have advised me to either just chance it or to apply for a visa, but if I get turned down then I will have no chance of going. However there are obviously possible consequences for either of these.

I think though I will contact the police in that area to see what details they do have. I have also been told by an official charity 'NACRO' that the US does not have access to the UK's criminal records and the only people they turn away are the people that admit to any convictions. However, the question specifically asks

'Have you ever been arrested or convicted for an offense or crime involving moral turpitude or a violation related to a controlled substance; or been arrested or convicted for two or more offenses for which the aggregate sentence to confinement was five years or more; or been controlled substance trafficker; or are you seeking entry to engage in criminal or immoral activities?'

I looked up moral turpitude and I'm not sure if a fine for not having a train ticket is classed as this?

I am also concerned as someone has also said that if I look worried when going through at customs that they will spot me and ask me further questions and then do some sort of check.

I appreciate all the replies however I really am still torn what to do but surely an offence for something like this should not stop you visiting a country for a holiday??

Many thanks

dzug1

Davidp77 wrote: »

Hi,


I looked up moral turpitude and I'm not sure if a fine for not having a train ticket is classed as this?

I am also concerned as someone has also said that if I look worried when going through at customs that they will spot me and ask me further questions and then do some sort of check.

I appreciate all the replies however I really am still torn what to do but surely an offence for something like this should not stop you visiting a country for a holiday??

Many thanks

I would think (but it's only my view) it is moral turpitude - it's either theft or fraud depending on how you look at it and both of these are definitely 100% moral turpitude.

Moral turpitude is an absolute - 'minor' and 'major' don't come into it. Trivial instances (which may include yours) can be 'waived' in the visa application process.

flang

Just tick the box "never been arrested or have a criminal record" on the USA entry weaver and you will be fine.
The USA do not have access to the british police database for minor crimes.

maninthestreet

dinkydog wrote: »

OK, firstly ignore most of the posts above, as they are either incorrect or misleading

The offence IS a criminal offence, so it has lead to a criminal record. Even VERY minor offences can get you permanently barred from the US.

You have strangely been quite fortunate here.

Its basically a "theft of service", ie intentionally or knowingly secures the performance of the service by deception, threat, or false token

This comes under District of Columbia Code [FONT=Verdana,Helvetica][FONT=Verdana,Helvetica]35-216. Failure to pay established fare or to present valid transfer; entry by rear exit door prohibited.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana,Helvetica]Fine for this is set at $250, its set by the rail operator, not the state.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana,Helvetica]Now, is this moral turpitude (its not really relevant) but NO, case of "mojica v reno 970" decided that it was CiMT for 2 offences of fare evasion.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana,Helvetica]Can you tick NO to the Moral Turpitude question on ESTA, IMO yes. [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana,Helvetica]Even if it was decided it was a moral turpitude question, (doubtful) then Petty Offenses would kick in if this was your only offence. [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana,Helvetica]Take a copy of you Police Certificate with you when you travel, always have the ability to prove your point. [/FONT]
[/FONT]

What, exactly is a 'Police Certificate' ???

gner_ex

Davidp77 wrote: »

Hi Quentin

It was South Western Magistrates in Clapham

David

Stating the obvious, but as you've probably realised this was the CROWN COURT - i.e. the criminal court not the civil one.