Me vs. HSBC. whats my next step?

Davewils

Right following the guidance on this site i discovered that i was eligable to have my bank charges refunded despite the hold currently in force. This was due to firstly being out of work because of a family bereavement, and also because i have been charged over £2000 in under 2 years (the FSA said that anyone being charged more than £500 a year was eligible).

So I used the template letter on here and fired it off last week and today the reply came:

Blah blah...

We note your request that HSBC freezes any future charges whilst your claim is stayed. However, I must advise that whilst the court case and legal proceedings between the banks and the OFT continue, the bank will continue to operate your account in accordance with our agreed terms and conditions.

Your have mentioned that you are in financial dificulties and we are sorry to hear that.

We would like to help by carrying out a review of your individual circumstances with you and as part of the review we will be able to verify that you are suffering financial difficulties.

Subject to that verification, we will explore with you what we may be able to do to assist. blah blah...The fact that you have incurred overdraft charges and are claiming refund of those will form part of our overall assessment of your circumstances (as will other factors) but our focus will be on considering what we may be able to do to assist, not solely considering refunding charges as you have requested.

blah blah.. please contact us on 0845 600 6423 blah blah..

Yours sincerely

Jim Large
General Manager, UK Operations.

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So, do i play ball, and give them a call (rhyme not intended) just to get fobbed off and sat on hold for ages, are they just sandbagging and trying to get me to jemp through hoops and forget about the claim? Or do I repeat my request, or something else? The fact that i have over £2000 worth of charges in 2 years on an overdraft that is only worth £1500, i think is criminal. I would very happily let them right off the overdraft rather than chase the full £2000 figure.

I hope you can help.

-David

Davewils

Right i have decided to resend my original letter along with the following additions:

As requested i have completed an income and expenditure form in order to confirm my claim of financial difficulties. This shows that i have no formal income at present and am relying on money borrowed from family members to maintain payments to yourselves and other lenders.

Additionally, I will continue to correspond via letter rather than telephone as you have suggested, as i wish to keep copies of all correspondence regarding this matter in order to forward it to the Financial Ombudsmen or in the event of a court case.

natweststaffmember

Davewils wrote: »

Right following the guidance on this site i discovered that i was eligable to have my bank charges refunded despite the hold currently in force. This was due to firstly being out of work because of a family bereavement, and also because i have been charged over £2000 in under 2 years (the FSA said that anyone being charged more than £500 a year was eligible).

So I used the template letter on here and fired it off last week and today the reply came:

Blah blah...

We note your request that HSBC freezes any future charges whilst your claim is stayed. However, I must advise that whilst the court case and legal proceedings between the banks and the OFT continue, the bank will continue to operate your account in accordance with our agreed terms and conditions.

Your have mentioned that you are in financial dificulties and we are sorry to hear that.

We would like to help by carrying out a review of your individual circumstances with you and as part of the review we will be able to verify that you are suffering financial difficulties.

Subject to that verification, we will explore with you what we may be able to do to assist. blah blah...The fact that you have incurred overdraft charges and are claiming refund of those will form part of our overall assessment of your circumstances (as will other factors) but our focus will be on considering what we may be able to do to assist, not solely considering refunding charges as you have requested.

blah blah.. please contact us on 0845 600 6423 blah blah..

Yours sincerely

Jim Large
General Manager, UK Operations.

---

So, do i play ball, and give them a call (rhyme not intended) just to get fobbed off and sat on hold for ages, are they just sandbagging and trying to get me to jemp through hoops and forget about the claim? Or do I repeat my request, or something else? The fact that i have over £2000 worth of charges in 2 years on an overdraft that is only worth £1500, i think is criminal. I would very happily let them right off the overdraft rather than chase the full £2000 figure.

I hope you can help.

-David

To clarify the financial hardship waiver the £500 is an indication of financial hardship but may not be financial hardship.

"vii.
repeatedly exceeding a credit card or overdraft limit without agreement (and, in this regard, where a complainant has incurred over £500 in unauthorised overdraft charges in the previous 12 months, that is to be treated as indicative of financial difficulty)."
Even if you are in financial hardship the bank doesn't have to refund charges:

"15. When dealing with complainants in financial difficulty, the firm should consider the following steps in respect of the period during which they are assessed as being in financial difficulty:
(a) the firm might waive future unauthorised overdraft charges; and
(b) the firm might not enforce debts against complainants in financial difficulty to the extent that these debts are made up of unauthorised overdraft charges."

However, I cannot see any reason not to call them but do not agree to anything unless it is confirmed in writing. Otherwise:

"6.
Where the firm does not have sufficient evidence to assess whether or not the complainant is in fact in financial difficulty, the firm will seek such further relevant information as is reasonably required to make that assessment. In the event that the firm reasonably requires relevant information to be provided by the complainant and the complainant does not provide the requested information within a reasonable period of time, the firm shall not be obliged to treat such a complainant as being in financial difficulty"

Davewils

Right, I have just got off the phone with HSBC after they rung me directly. After a long chat basically going over all the figures that i sent them for incoming and outgoing cashflow, they have agreed that i am in financial hardship.

HSBC's official policy (i dont know if someone wants to make a note of this in any hardship procedure thread) is to offer refunds on a monthly basis. For example, they calculated that my monthly essential outgoings are £275 so they have made me an offer of that figure, for this month. I am then expected to ring them in a months time, whereby they will review my case again, there and then on the phone, and make the decision as to whether or not to refund me another £275 of my charges.

Personally i think this is a bit of a sneaky way of getting around the 'financial hardship' rules but i get the feeling that if i went to the FOS they would say that HSBC are making a reasonable offer.

I have asked them to send me a formal offer letter (which i guess i'll receive in a day or two) however i will be rejecting it because after the phone call i remembered that whilst £270 may be my usual monthly outgoings, on the 18th of this month they are going to take another £200 of charges off of me. So my August outgoings (which they are covering) will be £470. I'm pretty certain that they will cover this however or cancel the charge, once i make them aware of it.

So a mixed result here. But at least it has thrown some light on how HSBC deals with hardship claims. I hope that this info helps others.

natweststaffmember

Davewils wrote: »

Right, I have just got off the phone with HSBC after they rung me directly. After a long chat basically going over all the figures that i sent them for incoming and outgoing cashflow, they have agreed that i am in financial hardship.

HSBC's official policy (i dont know if someone wants to make a note of this in any hardship procedure thread) is to offer refunds on a monthly basis. For example, they calculated that my monthly essential outgoings are £275 so they have made me an offer of that figure, for this month. I am then expected to ring them in a months time, whereby they will review my case again, there and then on the phone, and make the decision as to whether or not to refund me another £275 of my charges.

Personally i think this is a bit of a sneaky way of getting around the 'financial hardship' rules but i get the feeling that if i went to the FOS they would say that HSBC are making a reasonable offer.

I have asked them to send me a formal offer letter (which i guess i'll receive in a day or two) however i will be rejecting it because after the phone call i remembered that whilst £270 may be my usual monthly outgoings, on the 18th of this month they are going to take another £200 of charges off of me. So my August outgoings (which they are covering) will be £470. I'm pretty certain that they will cover this however or cancel the charge, once i make them aware of it.

So a mixed result here. But at least it has thrown some light on how HSBC deals with hardship claims. I hope that this info helps others.

DO NOT REJECT the offer but negotiate it and ask for a final response and explain why you believe that they may have missed an element to your case.
As an aside, someone else on the forum was told something else about their policy

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.html?p=23824307&postcount=1509

Very odd.

Davewils

I do have a few differences to that case. For example, i have no priority outgoings. After the death of my father I have returned home to help my mother temporarily and have no income. I also have no rent to pay, no mortgage, no utilities etc, etc. Their assesment on me is simply a "u have x going out each month and y coming in (in my case zero) so we'll cover the difference" kind of offer.

natweststaffmember

Davewils wrote: »

I do have a few differences to that case. For example, i have no priority outgoings. After the death of my father I have returned home to help my mother temporarily and have no income. I also have no rent to pay, no mortgage, no utilities etc, etc. Their assesment on me is simply a "u have x going out each month and y coming in (in my case zero) so we'll cover the difference" kind of offer.

so why are you rejecting it since it is not a full and final offer of your charges?

Davewils

I'm not sure i understand you NWSM. I'm rejecting/negotiating their offer becuase it doesnt reflect its purpose. i.e. Its supposed to cover my outgoings but it wont this month becuase of their additional charges, and as it get's re-calculated each month, i have to negotiate it now.

natweststaffmember

Davewils wrote: »

I'm not sure i understand you NWSM. I'm rejecting/negotiating their offer becuase it doesnt reflect its purpose. i.e. Its supposed to cover my outgoings but it wont this month becuase of their additional charges, and as it get's re-calculated each month, i have to negotiate it now.

A refund is not to cover your outgoing but to alleviate financial hardship. I would negotiate it on the basis that there was something that was taken into account ie those £200.00 in charges but I wouldn't reject it as such.

Davewils

Sorry yes, a misunderstanding. I will be negotiating their offer.

Davewils

Just thought i'd update this given my happy outcome. Today £450 went into my account. Because i have been very busy recently I was unable to reply to their offer of £275 (to cover my expenses for this month) until two days ago.

In doing so I wrote this short letter:

Thank you for you offer of £275.00 to cover my outgoings in the month of August, however I would like to negotiate this figure. I was originally very happy with the outcome of our phone conversation, in which you acknowledged my status as being in ‘financial hardship’ and agreed to refund the above figure of charges.

However, after the phone conversation took place, I checked my account details to find that another £175 of bank charges have been levied on my account and will infact remove funds from my account tomorrow (Tuesday 18th August) and I am having to, again, borrow money in order to cover these charges.

Because of this, the offer of £275 is no longer accurate as these fees have increased my outgoings this month to £450.

Please increase your offer to cover these charges. I have enclosed a modified ‘acceptance form’ with the updated figures in order to speed up the process.

---

I then scribbled out where it said £275 on their acceptance form, wrote £450 above it, and added in an extra line after where it said "in accordance with letter dated xxxx" i added "and my reply, dated xxxxx". Signed the agreement and sent it back in the pre-paid envelope they provided (with my letter).

Today I checked my account and £450 has gone in from HSBC listed as refunded charges. :T:j