Charging Order? The myth

Steve7811

Well, today we had a breakthrough! This morning I got a call from the same guy at Santander, saying that if we could not get permission from Lloyds they could not consider an extension! Once again I asked why it was that there was no reason for that, unless it was Santanders policy? He said it was a legal requirement for the first charge to get permission from the second charge. I explained what the restriction was, and that it only required a notification to the second charge if there was a change to the land registry entry. He repeated the mantra, we have to get permission. At this point I asked if they had consulted a solicitor and was told no! I then asked for it to be passed to a supervisor and for legal to review it. Within an hour I had the same guy on the phone apologising profusely, we did not need Lloyds permission, they would go ahead with an extension once we have agreed the rates and repayments! 

It just goes to show that as you said, we needed to get someone higher up to look at it, and although I am not a great fan of the legal profession I  know they will give accurate advice when needed! The real benefit of this is that Lloyds will not get a penny out of us unless we sell (unlikely) or they try to take it to a higher level (again unlikely) so we have stuck two fingers up to them! It also goes to show that people need to stick to their guns and not accept a judgement they know is wrong! 

We still have a formal complaint in with Lloyds, a pointer for anyone who wants to make a complaint, if you email the CEO t gets passed to "executive complaints" which I take to mean that the CEO gets an awful lot of them and just passes them to a team, and may never even see them!

KathrynConfused

Ok, four days before exchange and we've been told that the companies who hold the charging orders have to write to our solicitor confirming they will remove the order on settlement. This sounds right to me but just checking? Goodness only knows why we've only just been told this. Its infuriating 

eggbox

Steve7811 - Well done for persisting, but it highlights the lack of knowledge that surrounds charging orders and restrictions that, quite frankly, people in these positions should be aware of.

Kathryn Confused - Yes, the charges get settled from the proceeds of the sale and are then cancelled before the registration of the new owner.

Steve7811

eggbox said:

Steve7811 - Well done for persisting, but it highlights the lack of knowledge that surrounds charging orders and restrictions that, quite frankly, people in these positions should be aware of.

Yes, I am seriously considering a complaint, it has taken since August to get this resolved!

ohitsonlyme

What an amazing thread, it dispels  myths for so many including my conveyancing solicitor.

I am unsure if I need to start anew thread or add to this one so I am adding for now.

TIA for any replies

My now ex wife and I divorced back in 2008 due the pressures from the banking crisis and recession.

I was a property developer, almost lost everything.

 I managed to hang on to 2 large properties with equity despite massive pressure from the banks 

MY Now ex instructed solicitors to fight our divorce and ran up a large bill subsequently gained a CCJ and subsequent restriction on both properties, £15k plus accruing interest for 10 years 

She is Bedridden in a large 6 bed-roomed house with no way to manage things,she is classed as disabled and vulnerable

We have agreed to sell the other property that she doesnt live in so that she can buy a flat with her half of the equity 

 I have a cash buyer in place and understand the process of not paying the restriction at this time, so does my solicitor.

What can the creditor solicitor do after sale to enforce payment of the CCJ  given that they will continue to hold a restriction on the unsold property with more than enough equity to clear the debt.

Onlymeagain

KathrynConfused

I am by no means am expert but I am just at the final stages of a house sale with restrictions on our Deeds. Our buyer's solicitor would not agree to exchange unless we agreed to pay the restrictions and have them removed on completion. Our solicitor also agreed (despite us protesting) but even if she didn't, they were not prepared to proceed. It may be wise to check what your buyer's solicitor's stance is. But, as always I am more than happy to stand corrected.

eggbox

ohitsonlyme said:

What can the creditor solicitor do after sale to enforce payment of the CCJ  given that they will continue to hold a restriction on the unsold property with more than enough equity to clear the debt.

Onlymeagain

Can I just ask you to clarify the question, please? I think you're asking what can a "creditor" do after sale (if not paid on sale) as in this instance the creditor is a solicitor and is also the same creditor on the other property you aren't be selling? If I've got that wrong let me know and I can advise?

ohitsonlyme

eggbox said:

Can I just ask you to clarify the question, please? I think you're asking what can a "creditor" do after sale (if not paid on sale) as in this instance the creditor is a solicitor and is also the same creditor on the other property you aren't be selling? If I've got that wrong let me know and I can advise?

The creditor is a solicitor and they gained restrictions on  both of our main properties against my ex's beneficial interest There is a  second creditor  hmrc They also hold restrictions on both properties

ohitsonlyme

KathrynConfused said:

I am by no means am expert but I am just at the final stages of a house sale with restrictions on our Deeds. Our buyer's solicitor would not agree to exchange unless we agreed to pay the restrictions and have them removed on completion. Our solicitor also agreed (despite us protesting) but even if she didn't, they were not prepared to proceed. It may be wise to check what your buyer's solicitor's stance is.But, as always I am more than happy to stand corrected.

I agree Kathryn that others are more knowledgeable on this site and it is the knowledge of LRR and eggbox that I am following.

I am insistent that the buyer buys on my terms or not at all.
My solicitor agrees with the general view of this thread that a debt owed with a form k restriction does not have to be  repaid prior to new owners making an entry to the LR.
My question is what can a creditor do to pursue the debt once the property has been sold.

eggbox

ohitsonlyme said:

My question is what can a creditor do to pursue the debt once the property has been sold.

The creditor still has the same options to pursue the debt as they did prior to the Charging Order being granted. However, I think the more pertinent question here is "will" the creditor do anything if you sell and don't pay up? That, unfortunately, isn't possible to answer as its, solely, down to the creditor to decide?

The majority of posters on here have debts relating to "unsecured" loans, whereby, the original creditor sold off the debts to Debt Collection Agencies. The DCA's will also have only paid a fraction of the debt to have the debts assigned to them (between 4 - 10%) So for, say, a £10,000 loan they will have an exposure of only around a £1,000. Given they will also have hundreds (if not thousands) of other £10,000 debts that they are collecting  the £9,000 profit margin from; its doubtful they would find it good business practice to spend more time and money on a debtor who has shown their intentions not to want to pay? This appears to be borne out by posters who have sold up without paying, reporting they get no further contact from the creditor concerned?

However, in the case of a debt for services (the solicitors) and tax (HMRC) where the full amount of the debt is owed to the parties concerned, then I would be remiss in not warning that its extremely likely the solicitors would pursue their debt and a definitely would for HMRC as they have a legal duty to pursue tax debts.

However, as with all debt collection, how successful they would be depends on what funds the debtor has that can be pursued? There's no point trying to bankrupt a person if they have no money or trying to seize their money or assets they don't have any?  

So, I would be prepared for a fight if you manage to sell up without paying, but you'll never know what they are prepared to do until you've actually sold up and not paid up?