Charging Order? The myth

eggbox

Varadero94 said:

Hi All,

Hoping you can help - I've read through several pages of this thread but my head is spinning.

I am looking to sell my shared ownership house, I own a 50% share which has a mortgage, second mortgage and a Charging Order (Interim according to the land registry report). The statement of affairs on my property is;
Estimated value £108k (values are based on this sell price)
Housing Association 50% share - £54k
Mortgage Balance (Registered 2014) - £44k
Second Mortgage Balance (Registered 2016) - £9k
Charging Order (Registered 2018) - £5k

I am looking to sell my house to pay off my secondary mortgage, and move into rented accommodation (Family owned) as a larger premises will be better for my family now plus will reduce my outgoings. There is enough equity in the house to settle the Second Mortgage, but not the Charging Order.

The charging order was applied in Oct 2018 following a failed loan in which I was guarantor for, and is tied into a CCJ which I am currently repaying at an agreed £150 a month, and in which I have been consistent with my repayments.
My query is, this charging order was applied even though there was no equity in the house at the time of issue, and therefore should I be able to sell without having to repay this on the same pretence?
Also, am I best contacting the court to obtain a copy of the document to find if it is a final order or a Interim order? I had discussed this with my creditor, but they were uncertain on any of the details.

I am yet to contact a solicitor regarding this as wanted a better understanding of what I am dealing with.

Extract of register below:

(19.10.2018) UNILATERAL NOTICE in respect of an equitable charge

created by an interim chargeing order dated XX October 2018 in the

County Court Money Claims Centre under court reference XXXXXX

Thanks in Advance, and apologies if this is not posted in the correct forum.

Varadero94.

Unfortunately, this thread deals with restrictions and not charging orders registred by a Notice. However, I would like to hear Land Registry Rep's view on two issues here;
1. How would it have been possible to regster a Notice when the property was jointly owned with the housing association?
2. Can a charging order holder prevent the sale of the property if they are to receive no funds from the sale (this is where a Notice is involved and not a restriction?)

Varadero94

eggbox said:

Unfortunately, this thread deals with restrictions and not charging orders registred by a Notice. However, I would like to hear Land Registry Rep's view on two issues here;
1. How would it have been possible to regster a Notice when the property was jointly owned with the housing association?
2. Can a charging order holder prevent the sale of the property if they are to receive no funds from the sale (this is where a Notice is involved and not a restriction?)

Hi Eggbox,

Thanks for your reply - I was unaware of the difference.

I will check back in to see LR's answers to the points you have noted.

Kind Regards,
Varadero94.

Land_Registry

eggbox said:

Unfortunately, this thread deals with restrictions and not charging orders registred by a Notice. However, I would like to hear Land Registry Rep's view on two issues here;
1. How would it have been possible to regster a Notice when the property was jointly owned with the housing association?
2. Can a charging order holder prevent the sale of the property if they are to receive no funds from the sale (this is where a Notice is involved and not a restriction?)

1. OP will need to explain as whilst they reference ‘jointly owned’ what does, or did, the register state re the legal ownership when the Notice was registered? For example is the HA registered as a joint legal owner? Shared ownership arrangements may not mean they are. 

2. No but nobody is going to buy it with the Notice still registered - the Notice puts a buyer or lender or anyone else on notice of the debt/creditor’s interest. So a buyer will want an undertaking from the seller that they will ensure the Notice is withdrawn or cancelled. So essentially clear the debt  

You’ll recall that the devil is always in the detail and we don’t have all the details here 

Varadero94

Land_Registry said:

eggbox said:

Unfortunately, this thread deals with restrictions and not charging orders registred by a Notice. However, I would like to hear Land Registry Rep's view on two issues here;
1. How would it have been possible to regster a Notice when the property was jointly owned with the housing association?
2. Can a charging order holder prevent the sale of the property if they are to receive no funds from the sale (this is where a Notice is involved and not a restriction?)

1. OP will need to explain as whilst they reference ‘jointly owned’ what does, or did, the register state re the legal ownership when the Notice was registered? For example is the HA registered as a joint legal owner? Shared ownership arrangements may not mean they are. 

2. No but nobody is going to buy it with the Notice still registered - the Notice puts a buyer or lender or anyone else on notice of the debt/creditor’s interest. So a buyer will want an undertaking from the seller that they will ensure the Notice is withdrawn or cancelled. So essentially clear the debt  

You’ll recall that the devil is always in the detail and we don’t have all the details here 

Hi LR,
The register lists me as the sole proprietor of the property, and the register only lists the property at 50% of its purchase value so I presume this records only represents my share. However I do recall the HA notifying me an order had been applied.
The main thing I am curious about is the validity of the order when the LTV% was already at 110% before the order was placed.
I've consulted CAB regarding this so waiting to see what my best next steps are. 

Thanks.

Varadero94

CStar75

For some time and with much ado, we have successfully defended an order for sale claim against our only family home, following a charging order by a particularly aggressive creditor, using this draconian method against a family (one debtor in jointly owned home) with school aged children.  With the support of a debt charity and this forum, we were able to find a resolution by having the case suspended with an agreed repayment plan.  I just wanted to reassure anyone facing this extremely stressful and challenging situation that all is not lost and there are organisations willing to work with you to find a light at the end of a very dark tunnel.  I also want to say a huge thank you to this forum and those who have taken the time to listen, help and offer advice to us in our dire need - it is so gratefully appreciated. Good luck and very best wishes.

eggbox

Land Registry Rep
If you are around is there any chance you could update me on the progress of the application I requested help on recently. Everything was sent off on the 30th of August and the fee applicable has been cashed. No mail or emails have been received from the Land Registry, regarding any queries, so the people concerned are assuming the application was in order. They did check the register last Monday (which I explained was a little soon) however, it said the iregister nformation received was correct as at the 4th of September (and which didn't show any updated changes.) 

They have, therefore, left it another week but the register is still showing no update from the 4th of September? If you could let me know the progress of this application (or any problems) I'd be grateful as the people concerned are a bit jittery? The Title concerned is SF69135 and thanks in advance for anything you can update on?

Land_Registry

eggbox said:

Land Registry Rep
If you are around is there any chance you could update me on the progress of the application I requested help on recently. Everything was sent off on the 30th of August and the fee applicable has been cashed. No mail or emails have been received from the Land Registry, regarding any queries, so the people concerned are assuming the application was in order. They did check the register last Monday (which I explained was a little soon) however, it said the iregister nformation received was correct as at the 4th of September (and which didn't show any updated changes.) 

They have, therefore, left it another week but the register is still showing no update from the 4th of September? If you could let me know the progress of this application (or any problems) I'd be grateful as the people concerned are a bit jittery? The Title concerned is SF69135 and thanks in advance for anything you can update on?

Applications to update a register are waiting at least a month currently before being considered. This one has yet to be considered and I wouldn’t expect it to be for another 2/3 weeks at least yet. 

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-impact-on-hm-land-registrys-services#impact-on-our-services

eggbox

Thanks Land Registry Rep and i have advised the people concerned request an expedite as, given the reason for the sale, speed is of the essence.
I was also slightly amused in the section that was advising the public on what could be done to speed up an application by the question;
Is there anything we can do to make the lives of the HMLR employees any easier?
I think they need to remove the word "any"  unless you are all lying around on sun loungers 

Land_Registry

eggbox said:

Thanks Land Registry Rep and i have advised the people concerned request an expedite as, given the reason for the sale, speed is of the essence.
I was also slightly amused in the section that was advising the public on what could be done to speed up an application by the question;
Is there anything we can do to make the lives of the HMLR employees any easier?
I think they need to remove the word "any"  unless you are all lying around on sun loungers 

Can you signpost with a link where it says that please? 

eggbox

Can you signpost with a link where it says that please? 

HERE 
Click "Member of the Public" and 4th question down on next page