Charging Order? The myth

DAKOTA45

Hi EGGBOX… if you're around… I have my set aside hearing tomorrow.. do you know much about court procedure? I think it's a 15 minute hearing and I am assuming it is just so that the Judge can decide whether or not to allow the set aside.

However, I have today received a letter from the other side stating that a barrister will be attending and they have also given me a bill (for their costs leading up to the hearing)…1,500 quid!! They haven't even provided any defence documents, so i can't believe they have sent this bill before the hearing...do you know if that's normal procedure, please?

Is it worth me even attending if they have a fancy, expensive lawyer with, no doubt, a nice legal loophole to crawl into? I need to know what their defence is if I am to prepare my case against them, surely?

eggbox

Hi Dakota

The costs are normal but they have dropped them on you now to try and intimidate you before Court (and make sure you hand your costs to their side when you arrive and have ready to give to the Judge if you are successful.)

The best advice I can give you is to be succinct and to lay out your case in the most straight forward manner explaining exactly why you have applied for set aside. You must also have the documents to hand backing up your application to hand to the Judge.

If you have come this far believing you have a case I would see it through. But I would also explain that you feel you were prejudiced at the CO hearing as you were not allowed an interpreter.

DAKOTA45

eggbox wrote: »

Hi Dakota

The costs are normal but they have dropped them on you now to try and intimidate you before Court (and make sure you hand your costs to their side when you arrive and have ready to give to the Judge if you are successful.)

The best advice I can give you is to be succinct and to lay out your case in the most straight forward manner explaining exactly why you have applied for set aside. You must also have the documents to hand backing up your application to hand to the Judge.

If you have come this far believing you have a case I would see it through. But I would also explain that you feel you were prejudiced at the CO hearing as you were not allowed an interpreter.

Yes.. I guessed that would be the reason, as they did the same thing before the original trial, sending costs of 40k the night before the hearing! I thought there were rules about the serving of costs at the appropriate time, but we are dealing with some real gangsters here, I think…

I am not sure a Litigant In Person can claim costs as such… well, definitely not in the league of 2 grand an hour as their barrister seems to be claiming..:(

Many thanks for your advice… I have it all typed up and stuff to refer to, but I really am like a rabbit in the headlights when I get to the building… it gives me panic attacks each time… I have to take beta blockers for a heart problem, too…
I just freeze every time and this is what lets me down...
I am wondering whether to go right back to the very start if I am allowed to set aside, as the original hearing violated my rights under article 6 of the ECHR.
That Judge should never have denied me an adjournment when the audio loop wasn't working… and there was no adjudication for that hearing as I withdrew under duress before the end of the trial… that's why I am so upset at having to pay the neighbour's costs…

Hmm… I will get back to you later on tomorrow… please wish me luck… it has been in such short supply.

eggbox

Dakota

A LIP is entitled to claim costs every bit as much as a trained barrister, it's just the amounts that will differ. You claim £18 per hour for the time spent on all your research and you also claim for travel and any other associated costs that you have incurred. You can also claim for the £155 application fee, too.

Regarding your nerves, £1500 on top of the £24000 grand they previously received is neither here nor there really so don't worry on that score as losing won't really alter your position.

On the occasions I've been to Court its always amazed me how much Solicitors and Barristers rely on bluster and psychology to try and influence their position. Predictably, trying to be friendly with you when you first meet, to try and disarm you, then doing everything they can to sabotage your case in Court. So don't play their game and just hand them a copy of your costs and then ignore them. You then just concentrate on making sure the Judge gets what he needs to set aside the case.

In regard to the Judge, just assume he knows nothing about why you are trying setting aside, so keep it simple for him to follow and stick to the facts. He won't want to know what a B'stard your neighbour has been or how unfair it all is; he will just look at whether you have been prejudiced and if you have reason to set aside.

Good luck and don't be frightened to ask the Judge for a glass of water if you get a dry throat. It gives you a minute to think if you need to.

DAKOTA45

eggbox wrote: »

Dakota

A LIP is entitled to claim costs every bit as much as a trained barrister, it's just the amounts that will differ. You claim £18 per hour for the time spent on all your research and you also claim for travel and any other associated costs that you have incurred. You can also claim for the £155 application fee, too.

Regarding your nerves, £1500 on top of the £24000 grand they previously received is neither here nor there really so don't worry on that score as losing won't really alter your position.

On the occasions I've been to Court its always amazed me how much Solicitors and Barristers rely on bluster and psychology to try and influence their position. Predictably, trying to be friendly with you when you first meet, to try and disarm you, then doing everything they can to sabotage your case in Court. So don't play their game and just hand them a copy of your costs and then ignore them. You then just concentrate on making sure the Judge gets what he needs to set aside the case.

In regard to the Judge, just assume he knows nothing about why you are trying setting aside, so keep it simple for him to follow and stick to the facts. He won't want to know what a B'stard your neighbour has been or how unfair it all is; he will just look at whether you have been prejudiced and if you have reason to set aside.

Good luck and don't be frightened to ask the Judge for a glass of water if you get a dry throat. It gives you a minute to think if you need to.

Thanks so much for the encouragement… it's very lonely and intimidating as a LIP, especially when you are deaf… just a few hours to go now!
I have no idea what to charge for costs… it takes up every hour of my thoughts, day and night:(
Anyway… I'll be back later to ket you know how it all went...

eggbox

Good luck today Dakota and remember the old saying "you only fear what you hate". So take the hate out of the situation and just concentrate on what you need to explain to the Judge.

Remember there is only so much you can do and it will largely boil down to how the Judge views the situation anyway. So keep it as simple as you can for him!

But do prepare your costs on the basis of what time you taken to research what you have applied set aside for and any reasonable costs you have incurred.

DAKOTA45

Hi Eggbox…

Now back from court and no surprises- they didn't allow the set-aside.

But he was a very decent Judge and even reduced the costs for me.

I was bringing a case due to what I thought was incorrect procedure… but apparently, creditors are allowed to apply for more than one Judgement Order for the same debt. How crazy is that?

I had never heard of such a thing until I came across Wembley14's case.

Well… I am not bothered… they won't get their money anyway.

If they bring a case to try and force me to sell, I have an equitable set off which will extinguish the debt.

Hey ho.

eggbox

Hi Dakota

Sorry it didn't do your way but I'm glad you saw it through as it will remove a lot of the frustration you feel at your situation (and its good experience, too!). With only a Restriction in place you won't be in any danger of an OFS so don't worry.

But it will now allow you to focus your thoughts elsewhere and understand that there is more than one way to "skin a cat" (another old saying!)

DAKOTA45

eggbox wrote: »

Hi Dakota

Sorry it didn't do your way but I'm glad you saw it through as it will remove a lot of the frustration you feel at your situation (and its good experience, too!). With only a Restriction in place you won't be in any danger of an OFS so don't worry.

But it will now allow you to focus your thoughts elsewhere and understand that there is more than one way to "skin a cat" (another old saying!)

Ha! One of my nan's favourite sayings… she always made a lot of sense.
I am plotting away…;)

If I can get some legal help, the creditor will end up owing me 375k!

Onwards and upwards!

Rockit

Hi all, I started a thread in another forum on here in Forums > Essential Money > House Buying, Renting & Selling
(Apologise, can't post links yet.)

Basically I'm selling my jointly owned property and I'm struggling to find a conveyancer who can deal with the Form K Restrictions for individual debts that my wife and I have. They all want to just pay our creditors from the proceeds of the sale.

Can anyone recommend a conveyancer who has experience with these type of restrictions.
Many thanks!