Unique tax Reference query

reheat

fengirl wrote: »

From what you say, I dont think you are self employed with this company. Maybe the company has/is having a PAYE audit and they know they are going to be rumbled, so are trying to cover their backs. As previous poster says, HMRC can easily type your name and address into their computer and find your tax records, so there is no need to give out your UTR.
If you are found to be an employee rather than self employed with this business, the employer is liable for your tax and NIC - even if you have already paid this - so no wonder they are panicking.
Also, dont forget by treating you as self employed they are evading NIC. holiday pay, sick pay, etc and you have no security of employment.

I think OP is self employed technically, but the employment arrangement makes OP effectively an employee. And not going through any agency or other company of any kind means the HMRC liability is all down to the company not OP. Yep, I reckon they are wetting themselves.

minxtress

Yes thats what il do tomorrow. What you say seems right yes its just me registered with HMRC as self employed as this is what they told me to do, and the company pay my commision to me on a monthly basis not via any other company. It all just gets so confusing being in this position as I dont feel I have any rights and when they threaten to cut off calls etc if we dont do enough hours it doesnt seem right I do 80 hours a week sometimes to bring in a decent months pay as I know its quieter in winter in travel so I want to have some put by.
I read somewhere that if your self employed you cannot be treat the smae way an office based employee can, ie if you have no contract you cannot be dictated to over hours you work etc.
I make it sound like im unhappy with my job which Im not, I just like to know what the clear boundaries are and what is classed as right in these circumstances.

reheat

minxtress wrote: »

I just like to know what the clear boundaries are and what is classed as right in these circumstances.

I think it's the nature of the beast that with the sort of company you are doing business with, and the very loose contractual arrangment, there rarely will be any clear boundaries. Good luck.

minxtress

Right im going to ring them tomorrow and il let you all know the outcome. Need to know for my sanity.

PlutoinCapricorn

Minxtress, your original posting has raised many issues and points. One of the most important is how this company is treating you where your employment status is concerned. They say that you are self employed, but the fact that they can dictate their conditions to you make you a de facto employee. I assume that you do not invoice them for your money?

As others have said, it is possible to be registered as self employed to cover some of your work, to work as an employee on PAYE for another job and even to have a limited company on top of that. Other people confirm that even though you have registered as self employed and are paying your own tax & NI for some of the work, if you are not free to set your own terms re hours and place of work where this company is concerned, then you are not working for them on a self employed basis. They are giving you orders as if you were an employee, but no holiday pay etc. no PAYE deductions so they get all the benefits of having their own people and none of the costs. This is not legal, and it seems that HMRC might have discovered them.

Will 2008/09 be the first year for which you will be filling in a self-assessment tax return? When did you register as self-employed? It is likely that if you did not mention a partnership or limited company, you are a Sole Trader by default.

reheat

PlutoinCapricorn wrote: »

They are giving you orders as if you were an employee, but no holiday pay etc. no PAYE deductions so they get all the benefits of having their own people and none of the costs. This is not legal

Sorry but I don't agree with this bit. If a sole trader (which is what OP technically is by the sound of it) decides to accept such a working relationship then it is perfectly legal, and in many cases works perfectly well. It's in the nature of such a working relationship that the sole trader is responsible for their own tax, holidays, sickness, etc. You'd normally expect the payment rate to account for this. The only thing that is illegal is if people try to hide the nature of such a working relationship from HMRC. In this case I think it is the company which has probably been avoiding paying employers NI contributions, liable because of the effective employer/employee relationship. It's a woolly area but I think here it is probably cut and dried.

minxtress

I have repeatedly tried to get through this morning and cant just to clarify a few things with the tax office. I have felt myself that I am getting a raw deal in as much as working conditions arent clear. As an employee I can be told what hours to work, as self employed I can't etc. I need to clear this up and also the UTR issue. Its playing on my mind a lot.
Yes I make a good income out of this job but I dont get a basic wage and to make that good income I sit here from ten til ten most days. NOT good.

fengirl_2

You need to ask to speak to a status inspector - the frontline helpline staff wont be qualified to deal with this issue.

minxtress

fengirl wrote: »

You need to ask to speak to a status inspector - the frontline helpline staff wont be qualified to deal with this issue.

Do I just ring the helpline and ask to speak to one of these people?

minxtress

Spoke to HMRC who advised the company can ask for UTR and it can't be used togather any personal information, they probably only want it as proof that thier staff have registered as self employed as this is the only way they have of knowing.
Il still bide my time giving it to them though!
Thanks for all replies.