Unique tax Reference query

PlutoinCapricorn

Well, provided that you are willing to give information, there are many people on here, including ex-HMRC inspectors, who will help to sort things out. It does sound a bit strange to me. There are many HMRC regulations about employment, self employment and it is important to be aware of them.

The place to start is accepting that if you work in return for payment, you need a legal vehicle to operate through. If the company that you do work for does not give you a contract of employment and deduct income tax under PAYE, then you have the option of being a Sole Trader, a Limited Company or a Partnership. You must register as such with HMRC. There is also subcontracting for some industries | believe. Other postings on here show that some employers are trying to save costs and cut down on admin by telling their workers that they must be self employed and look after their own tax and NI. The employers then would not have to pay sick and holiday pay and employer's NI. This is illegal: these workers are not self employed according to HMRC's definition. It is also dangerous for the employer: if HMRC finds out there is a risk of fines and having to pay all the NI.

Are you treated as an employee for everything apart from the tax and NI? Did you ever register with HMRC?

fengirl_2

On no account give anyone your UTR = this is private to you and could enable people to access your tax records.
Whether or not you are self employed with this travel agent depends on the relationship be tween you and the employer - not whether or not you are self employed - you could make wedding cakes in your spare time, but thhis would have nothing to do with travel agency. Your employer needs to satisfy himslef that he is correct in treatng you as self employed - checking with HMRC if necessary. Whether or not you have a UTR does not come into it.

p00hsticks

My only thought is that HMRC may have asked your employers to provide details of who they are employing/paying (as they are probably entitled to do) so that they can cross-check that you are all declaring your earnings for tax. But that still doesn't explain why they want your UTR, as your name & NI number should be sufficient.

I agree with fengirl - don't tell them it.

reheat

PlutoinCapricorn wrote: »

It is evidence that you have registered as self-employed: one client asked me to put it on the invoices that I submitted to them. The contractor scheme was not involved.

I had a UTR number long before I registered self-employed. I think you get one when you register for online self-assessment. They show it on your tax return forms, but I seem to remember that sometimes they actually label it as UTR and other times simply as tax reference or something like that. Really annoying when a form asks for something by one name, and it's given to you on another bit of paper ... but called something else! :mad:

minxtress

PlutoinCapricorn wrote: »

Well, provided that you are willing to give information, there are many people on here, including ex-HMRC inspectors, who will help to sort things out. It does sound a bit strange to me. There are many HMRC regulations about employment, self employment and it is important to be aware of them.

The place to start is accepting that if you work in return for payment, you need a legal vehicle to operate through. If the company that you do work for does not give you a contract of employment and deduct income tax under PAYE, then you have the option of being a Sole Trader, a Limited Company or a Partnership. You must register as such with HMRC. There is also subcontracting for some industries | believe. Other postings on here show that some employers are trying to save costs and cut down on admin by telling their workers that they must be self employed and look after their own tax and NI. The employers then would not have to pay sick and holiday pay and employer's NI. This is illegal: these workers are not self employed according to HMRC's definition. It is also dangerous for the employer: if HMRC finds out there is a risk of fines and having to pay all the NI.

Are you treated as an employee for everything apart from the tax and NI? Did you ever register with HMRC?

I do work in return for payment, yes, I dont have a contract, and as soon as I started working for this company I registered with HMRC, I wasnt asked however if I was a Sole Trader, a Limited Company or a Partnership.
I am treated as an employee in every other respect, ie they monitor our calls, they give us our sales leads, they pay our commision into our banks, they nag about how many hours we should be working, they provide the office party for us to go to etc. As far as I can see the only difference between myself and the staff in the office is I am commision only based and I pay my own NI and tax.....which I will when I start to fathom out the tax return as I have said before. I went on a self assessment course and it confused me even more as non of it seemed relevant to me at all.

Im worried incase I will be sacked if I dont give my UTR but dont want to

reheat

minxtress wrote: »

Im not a sole trader though, I work for them, they pay my wage which is commision only into my bank account. Only difference is im classed as self employed and pay my own tax and NI so still non the wiser why they need it all of a sudden. Also other homeworkers have worked for the company for 5 years and this is the first they have been asked too.

Maybe HMRC are starting to tighten the screws on this company, because it looks very much like they are doing what HMRC seeks to stamp out ~ people to all intents and purposes being in their employ, but wriggling out of paying employer's NI etc by using self employed workers instead?

There is a very important issue for you here. Is there any sort of intermediary company between yourself and the company - are you working via an agency, do you work through your own company or partnership? If you do operate that way then you could be liable to IR35, making you HMRC's target for closing the tax loophole. But if it is simply your sole-trading business and the company, with nothing in between, then it is the company who they will chase not you. That may be what the company is panicking about?

From what you say it sounds like you are a sole trader technically, even though you say you are not. That would be good news so far as IR35 is concerned. I'm not an expert I hasten to add, thjis is just based on fairly recent experience.

But I would be extremely careful about giving away private information like a UTR number.

minxtress

No Im not working via an agency. I simply sit in my office at home taking the calls that my office send to me, converting them into sales then getting a percentage of the commision at the end of the month. So does this make me a sole trader?

fengirl_2

From what you say, I dont think you are self employed with this company. Maybe the company has/is having a PAYE audit and they know they are going to be rumbled, so are trying to cover their backs. As previous poster says, HMRC can easily type your name and address into their computer and find your tax records, so there is no need to give out your UTR.
If you are found to be an employee rather than self employed with this business, the employer is liable for your tax and NIC - even if you have already paid this - so no wonder they are panicking.
Also, dont forget by treating you as self employed they are evading NIC. holiday pay, sick pay, etc and you have no security of employment.

minxtress

They have had homewrokers for years and I would of thought it would of come to light long before now if they were up to anything dodgy. Would it be wise to ring the tax office and ask all these questions or do you think that would be opening up a whole can of worms? I cant even say why I dont want them to have my UTR, just something about it doesnt feel right and I usually find my instinct is spot on.
I am also getting a bit peed off that I am classed as self employed yet they are sending emails to all homeworkers telling us we should be working more hours and if we dont they'l stop the calls coming to us as of september. Surely only a boss can do this? Ie an employer>?

reheat

minxtress wrote: »

They have had homewrokers for years and I would of thought it would of come to light long before now if they were up to anything dodgy. Would it be wise to ring the tax office and ask all these questions or do you think that would be opening up a whole can of worms? I cant even say why I dont want them to have my UTR, just something about it doesnt feel right and I usually find my instinct is spot on.
I am also getting a bit peed off that I am classed as self employed yet they are sending emails to all homeworkers telling us we should be working more hours and if we dont they'l stop the calls coming to us as of september. Surely only a boss can do this? Ie an employer>?

From what you are saying here HMRC will definitely class you as an effective employee of this company, even if not technically. In which case either you or the company will be liable to pay the necessary dues to HMRC. I think from what you are saying, it's just you (registered as self-employed with HMRC) and the company paying commission straight to you, and not via any other company. Which is why this company is probably starting to mess itself ... HMRC could be about to stamp on them very very hard.

Maybe you should just ring HMRC and ask them if it is right for a company to ask someone for their UTR number. It doesn't seem right to me.