Martins View On Using Mortgage Brokers...

kenshaz

I would like to ask one question ,and it is not meant to inflame ,please ,please mortgage brokers do not defend .I just want a straight answer to help me understand why their are so many of you,we do not have the same numbers of estate agents ,accountants,dentists,soldiers,plumbers ,IFAs,etc.what attracts and why do you need links ,explain that ,and I will not feel that I need to protect?

AndyWallace

kenshaz wrote:

I would like to ask one question ,and it is not meant to inflame ,please ,please mortgage brokers do not defend .I just want a straight answer to help me understand why their are so many of you,we do not have the same numbers of estate agents ,accountants,dentists,soldiers,plumbers ,IFAs,etc.what attracts and why do you need links ,explain that ,and I will not feel that I need to protect.

There you go again you ******* **** ******* ***** ***** ****** ******. Why don't you ****** **** ***** ***** **** ** ****** and **** *****.

Andy. :rotfl:

MortgageMamma

I for one Kenshaz, come to this site because I like helping people. I am a really nice helpful and kind person by nature, and I like to treat people the way I would like to be treated. If you spent a day in the shoes of a mortgage broker, you would realise what a satisfying and fantastic occupation it really is. Mortgages are one of the most misunderstood things around, they have a huge impact on an individuals life. Borrowing hundreds of thousands of pounds is a massive commitment. I see myself as a guardian to these people, both clients and forum users alike. I am not afraid to show them warmth, compassion or to cheer them up if they need it. I am not afraid to say when someone is doing something wrong, or has ideas that are not implementable. But on the other hand this site gives a lot back to me too. As you know as you have seen some of my non mortgage related posts in the past. The site is about a community of people supporting eachother with their views and knowledge. And its free. Why wouldnt I want to be here?

kenshaz

The response was similar to the on a politician would give,and I am not talking to you personally ,please do not take it personally.

AndrewSmith

kenshaz wrote:

I would like to ask one question ,and it is not meant to inflame ,please ,please mortgage brokers do not defend .I just want a straight answer to help me understand why their are so many of you,we do not have the same numbers of estate agents ,accountants,dentists,soldiers,plumbers ,IFAs,etc.what attracts and why do you need links ,explain that ,and I will not feel that I need to protect?

Good question actually Kenshaz.

We are consumers using a consumer site just like everyone else. Because of the nature of the beast I personally find it impossible to not offer assistance or guidance on a subject that i know incredibly well with years of experience. The mortgage forum is a small part of my involvement on the site and have picked up some excellent tips for my own using in other areas. Tesco clubcard points for example.

The fact is that there are actually just as many, if not more, of the other trades you mention above also using and offering advice of these forums within their own field of expertise and other threads. However being regulated by the FSA a mortgage broker (and IFA) has to be doubly careful about the guidance given, thus the site owner has asked us to identify ourselves as such, and for our own regulatory protection the disclaimer is placed in the signature. This is not as yet compulsary however I think it is a responsible measure to protect both the poster and the responding broker. None of the trades you mention above (with the exception of possibly the law society for solicitors but not conveyancers) carry such heavy regulatory frameworks and, as such, have not been asked to declare publically their status.

The public and those in the industry alike are the ones that called for regulation of mortgages, all we are doing is acting within that framework without putting ourselves or the public at any risk of mis-interpretation of the guidance we give.

I do believe that some signatures are too explicit and contain un-necessary information however that is an issue for Martin not me, and is merely my own point of view.

I hope that goes some way to answering your very valid point?

EdInvestor

kenshaz wrote:

I just want a straight answer to help me understand why their are so many of you,we do not have the same numbers of estate agents ,accountants,dentists,soldiers,plumbers ,IFAs,etc.

There are actually quite a few IFA and other financial salespersons on MSE - arguably the numbers are similar to the mortgage brokers.They hang out on the pensions, investments, insurance and tax boards.Most of the IFAs don't have ID signatures: dunstonh is an exception.

The signatures are the main reason the mortgage brokers appear so plentiful.

kenshaz

EdinInvestor--whilst I listen, the numbers are not comparable,relative to the population of this site and taking into account other skills they are high.I also frequent the boards you describe,so I am aware.

kenshaz

No time to respond to Andrews response now ,will return to it later.

payless

kenshaz wrote:

I would like to ask one question ,and it is not meant to inflame ,please ,please mortgage brokers do not defend .I just want a straight answer to help me understand why their are so many of you,we do not have the same numbers of estate agents ,accountants,dentists,soldiers,plumbers ,IFAs,etc.what attracts and why do you need links ,explain that ,and I will not feel that I need to protect?

Kenshaz- now actually this is a discussion I am willing to have .

I visited the site in the Summer of 2003 when it was fairly new - not actually realsiing that there was a chat forum , let alone a mortgage baord . I made a few posts as a guest ( you could then) and then signed up . I guss I am the person with the most posts on the board mortgage ( although I do go onto other MSE boards as well )

I found myself helping people with posts ( which I enjoyed - maybe vanity ?) and having discussions with a chap from L&C ... our thoughts were mainly on the same theme , although not sure he saw mortgages as a long term career . I had discussions over "whole of Market" ( pre FSA ) and sub prime/ fees etc. Between us helped many people and also saw off a fair few brokers who came on touting for business, but in general I was answering straightforward queries on a chat forum ( unlike Martin I would say it was a bit like an "ask the Expert" board)

I started to get direct enquiries by PM - which I dealt with - most were because people preferred to discuss off the forum . I added an email link , as the PM system is far from ideal.

Most queries did not involve any business . Some people asked me to act on their behalf - I did some business for a few MSE users, yes business is good ( I'm in business !)- every person who approached me was offered a rebate on commission ( and of course no fees) - so actually a lot of the cases were done at a loss ( after costing for time etc..), but as this was never seen as a main source of business , I was not looking at making mega bucks . That said I have formed long standing relationships with some , and I'm aware that even some that I did not do business with have recommended me or mentioned me on other financial forums.

Martin said how good it was to have someone on board, and he hoped I was gaining business from it. ( said he could see the mtg board was in safe hands)

He then became aware of my rebate to users ( I had never advertised it) but a users had mentioned it , and I found myself "mentioned " in an article . MSE became almost an addiction - I was posting early morning, throughout the day and at night - my "real" business actually suffered from it.

Enquiries grew, - (especially as L&C chap left the board) but then so did the number of other brokers , some honest, some which came and went, some seemed to be touting ( one of the main touting merchants actually likely gets more business from these boards than any of the regular posters- and I'm not talking L&C ) - others maybe came on the site with the wrong intention but views changed ?- overall it would appear that most have consumers interests as first priority ( but you can't take the sales out of salesperson) .

I decided that as well as wanting to drop the addiction , that it was unfair for these other brokers might spend time and assist , only to be told that "payless" gives a few quid back ... so I asked for the article to be changed .
( actually it was not done at this point)

Martin changed his article to include "cashback- no advice " brokers - I disagreed , as I feel that whilst it might suit some , the majority benefit from advice - plus most proper brokers would do a deal on no advice if asked ( in fact I'm aware I done advised cases with bigger cashbacks than available from those sites )

At this point Martin did action my further request to remove my " username" from his article.

Since then I have reduced my time on these boards, and dropped my signature
- yes sometimes I think some brokers seem to be touting - whether they do it on purpose or just because rules restrict them , but overall most users are getting good information , and from what I see could do a lot worse in a choice of broker than those that post here .

Whilst its Martin's site, I have seen the mortgage board as a bit of my baby , and am really upset that its been spoilt

EdInvestor

There are about 4 or 5 industry type people regularly posting on the other side I think.

The trick IMHO is to get a balance of info and comment between informed people with a range of views.It's quite wrong to suggest that only industry people are well informed or "qualified" to help posters with queries :rolleyes:.

For instance seems to me the endowment threads work well, with a mix of posts from dunstonh, myself , Defender of the Weak and a number of other posters who have quite a bit of experience of investing.

While there is quite often disagreement on issues (because much of finance is a matter of opinion and judgement, there is no "right" answer), as DH has said, we all state out views and let the poster come to his or her own decision. Most people are quite well able to cope once the issues have been discussed and clarified.There are some exceptions.

It would be useful if there were more well-informed non brokers posting on the mortgage board.But the brokers will generally be more up to date with the latest developments in the market, as it's their job, so their contribution is always going to be useful.