BT Final Bill scandal - “One-off” charges - beware

iniltous

How did you report your line faulty ?, if it was via a phone call then the BT customer service rep would have quoted the 'CAPC' script, 'customer aware potential charges', in effect they state, before the engineer is commited to a visit that should the problem be due to something that Openreach are not responsible for, then charges would apply, they state about £99 for the call out, and then £99 per hour or part hour, so the usual figure is about £200, (if a charge is applied,) you state £325, is this just the repair charge or total bill ?
£200 is obviously still a large fee, but Openreach would argue that as they pay compensation to CP's for lines that are out of order when it is Openreaches fault and by attending on a 'non fault' they may be failing to repair something than is costing compensation , so the 'call out' fee of £99 is almost like a penalty , so the repair rate is £99/hour, still a lot, but no more than a plumber, electrician etc ,employed by a large company, not a 'one man band'
I suppose if you bought a car ( or rented one for that matter ) and filled up with the wrong fuel then the new car warranty wouldnt apply or if it were a hire car then you would be getting the bill for the 'repair'
You are right to point out that the engineer gave no indication that a charge would be raised, but its not the engineers call to make, the engineer puts in his 'clear notes' what the problem was and what repair was needed and the back office decides if charges are appropriate...

Seans_dad

Iniltous, they gave no indication of any charge whatsoever when I made the initial phone call to report the fault. BT have told me they record all conversations so I could force them to play the relevant tape to prove this point.

I believe there are three main points to this dispute that BT would have to justify:

1) Provide evidence that I agreed beforehand to the (excessive) charges and hourly call-out rates.

2.) Provide evidence that it was the very light vegetation that caused damage to the BT-owned cable – and nothing to do with the deterioration/wear and tear of the cable over the decades it has been up.

3) Provide evidence that such a high charge for less than an hour’s work is justified. A bill of over £300 seems grossly unfair and excessive.

I don’t think BT could prove any of the above and I am willing to go as far court of law to judge on that basis. I would, of course, ask the court for all costs to be borne by BT. I will try to gain as much publicity as I can for the case through the local media to show just what a rotten shower BT really are.

BT rep:

I still haven’t received any written correspondence stating that you refuse to rescind the bill. I require this in writing so I can move to the next stage of the complaints process – i.e. the Telecoms Ombudsman.

I would also like to ask BT – why have you stopped treating your customers fairly ?

Doubtless the dispute that I am going through is being replicated around the country with unscrupulous service companies trying to retain profits at all costs.

baldude

BT_company_representative wrote: »

Hi Seans dad,

We have checked the details of the fault repair and can see that this fault was cause by an overgrown plant on the property. This fault was not caused by the normal day to day running of you line. BT will cover any repairs that are caused by BT or by the normal day to day running of that line. This is stated in our BT customer service guarantee scheme. The guarantee does not apply if someone other than BT has caused the fault. In your case this was directly as a result of an overgrown plant on the property.

Thanks

Patrick

BT Support,

I think you missed a point from seansdad...
He complains that BT never informed him that he would be liable to the charge of whatever pounds....that is outrageous is not it???just because of he had a BT line and had a problem BT cannot charge him without obtaining his consent for the price.
Had the 300pounds charge been informed to seansdad before hand, he would rather have left BT and found someone else to supply the service, if he thought he could not afford the bill of 300 pounds.

deklan99

If you're going the whole hog you might be able to get a transcript of the call you made reporting the fault or a copy of the fault report by sending a £10 cheque made payable to BT plc and send to British Telecommunications PLC, PP M3042 DSAR, Colindale House, The Hyde, Colindale, London NW9 6LB - http://www2.bt.com/btPortal/application?origin=con_footer.jsp&event=bea.portal.framework.internal.portlet.event&pageid=mb_form&portletid=mb_form&portletns=mb_form&wfevent=Link.mb_form&oSiteArea=con.mya&oPt=mb_rcol_services&siteArea=con.mya&type=privacy#policyNo8
Might be worth while deciding who you are complaining about though, plenty wriggle room for BT Retail as your voice provider since it's in the Ts & Cs that the customer may be responsible for any charges due and provides links to the relevant charges.
BT Retail are only onpassing charges levied to them by BT Wholesale who employ BT Openreach to maintain their property.
BT Openreach's fees have already been ratified by Ofcom so they think they're fair so it would be down to whether the engineers report is correct.
Still, won't know till you try.

iniltous

If when the OP called BT to report the fault and the fault receptionist didnt give the ' if the fault is proved to be on your own wiring/equipment or found not to be caused by fair wear and tear' statement then the OP may have a case, but its one of the things the BT person is audited on so if they missed it out and the call was reviewed then the receptionist would be in trouble, but a transcript/copy of the call would be required to establish if the CAPC script was given, but the computer screen the BT person uses prompts them to give the CAPC statement, and wont proceed to entering a report until the person has 'ticked' the box, that states CAPC given
CAPC...customer aware of potential charges

Seans_dad

Yes guys, I agree the initial call is crucial here. Depending on how much further down the line this dispute goes, then I will definitely need the transcript of that conversation. I just hope BT haven't 'lost' it. If I had been warned of the charges I would have refused to have the repair done - period.


This is an odd situation for us because my wife and I have been BT customers for the last 18 years and never in that time have we had a problem. We have had a number of faults in the past, however these have always been repaired free of charge. I would have gone so far as recommending BT as a good service supplier.

Yet one act of crass stupidity and greed has ruined that relationship. In the long run this dispute will cost BT money - both through the Ombudsman and lost future trade. I have made all my family and work colleagues aware of the situation and they are all shocked at the level of charges levied (they are over one and a half times our normal annual BT bill). We will also make our children aware of the dangers of using BT in the future.

I guess BT and the likes wouldn’t care about long-term though. All they are interested in is short-termism and max profit now. But look where that led the Banks to…

Seans_dad

Just spoken to BT on the phone and they are ’maintaining the charges’. I have asked them to put this in writing so that I may now progress this to the Ombudsman.

Strangely enough they had no record of the letter I sent on July 21st – 10 days ago. Like the PM on this forum to the company rep, it seems to have got lost.

Here’s the rub though. I asked them play me the tape of my original phone call (re the repair) and they refused ! They say they only keep tapes of phone calls ‘for training purposes’. They did say they had a transcript of the original phone conversation and said that a box was ticked stating I ‘was advised of the charges’. This, I believe, is untrue, as they just quoted over £100 plus for call-out charges alone. I would have refused this level of charge point-blank.

I was already thinking of leaving back then in May and requested a change of service provider the following month. Why would I agree to hundreds of pounds for a repair bill on equipment that would soon become redundant ?

I really do have a problem now as they refuse to play me my original request. Where do I go from here and how do I prove that I am ‘innocent’ so-as-to-speak if they refuse me the evidence ?

I also vigorously dispute their statement that light vegetation caused damage to the BT cable. Our house was built in 1927 and my suspicion is the BT cables have been up decades (and therefore the fault due to pure wear and tear). Again any advice on how I could fight on this second front would be welcome.

deklan99

Under The Data Protection Act BT must provide details of any personal information held by them as per previous link, the £10 fee covers costs.
As mentioned above it will probably come down to the voracity of the Openreach engineer's report which you should also be able to get a hold of.

samba

Seans_dad wrote: »

If I had been warned of the charges I would have refused to have the repair done - period.

It may that you just agreed to the potential charges without giving it a second thought, at the time assuming that the engineer would find a fault with their line and fix it for free. If you had refused to have the repair done then you would be left with no phone line, so the reasonable course of action would have been to agree to the potential fees, in order to get the line fixed. Unfortunately, according to the engineer, the wear and tear on the line was caused by an overgrown plant that you were responsible for...


Human memory is a funny thing, and is far from infallible. It is easy for someone to convince themselves that they remember something happening (or not) when in reality it did not.

However, it seems quite simple to resolve this issue - if the plant that caused the damage is indeed "very light vegetation" (your words), then it would be incapable of damaging the phone line and therefore the charge is unfair. All you have to do is prove whether the plant is question is "very light vegetation" or not.

Seans_dad

Thanks guys again for the information.

I'm just wondering whether a tick in a box would be sufficient evidence for the Ombudsman to agree they had informed me of the level of charges, if any ?

Would the Ombudsman insist that they played the tape recording - i.e. is the onus on BT to prove they definitely did inform me or is the onus on me to disprove their statement ?

Never having taken a dispute to the Telecoms Ombudsman, I'm a bit in the dark. But this is definitely the next step I'll be taking and I'll keep you informed via this thread.